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Ok, I am going to bite the bullet and buy a foil, which one?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Foil Reply with quote

Walked48,

Based on what you wrote, I'm going out on a limb here & just say you may not be a candidate for a foil. The areas you appear to be focused on are cost, transport & early planing.

Cost: Foils are expensive right now but the cost will start to drop as the market becomes flooded with foils by companies trying to cash in on the new fad.

Transport: If you get a foil that can be taken apart (add time) then it is quite easy to transport. However, if you get a one piece carbon foil it takes up a lot more three dimensional space than any other piece of windsurfing equipment.

Early planing: You really are not going to get that much of an edge in early planing. The edge will come from being able to use smaller sails & stay on the plane into lighter winds.

Coachg
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1010

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several really good windsurfers are now foiling at my local small gusty lake.
To the man they say its really fun. Not that hard and don't even bring lite wind windsurfing gear. They like the fact that they can use a much smaller sail than on a windsurfer. And if the wind does pick up they grab a small wind surfing board and go. Where we sail its pretty much a two board one sail session for the foil guys. One thing I noticed is side by side " they" are much faster and get up wind better when I'm not planning and they are not flying.
Cost wise, the price of a huge sail, mast and boom vs. a foil has me thinking of getting one if my lake fills up next year. windsurfing since 1981. maybe its time to try something new.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you take the wings off they pack down fairly easy. Easier than a large boom and mast. Cost is less than a big rig for everything except perhaps the most expensive foil, expect the used market to get good in a few years.

Pumping is a critical skill in steady wind, otherwise you are overpowered once up. On the other hand being OP'd on the foil is pretty manageable (sheeting out is no biggie).

The glide between gusts is phenomenal and so long as you are on the wing you can make really good upwind angles.

I haven't foiled in a few months since I was always waiting for that ideal wind speed below shortboarding and above raceboard. Realistically that doesn't exist. Instead I'm going to foil until I can get on sinker and stop sailing larger rigs.
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brand_adam



Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottybda wrote:
These are the sessions I have uploaded which were 2nd, 3rd and 4th times out. I'll have to get around to putting out the latest stuff when I get a chance.

2nd go
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=sitlZ3PQ4dI

high wind day
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=6mMG_rX2x4M

4th go using long fuselage first time
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=TwsAj6rWto8


I fixed your links because really wanted to see them myself!

2nd go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sitlZ3PQ4dI

high wind day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mMG_rX2x4M

4th go using long fuselage first time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwsAj6rWto8

These give me hope. I'm a kitefoiler, (former windsurfer) and your progress is way better than mine was with the kite when I first started out. I'm hoping the kitefoiling gives me a bit of an advantage when I start windfoiling.
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scottybda



Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey thanks for that, I wasn't paying attention! Laughing

I think if you kitefoil it'll be easy. Last night my buddy who had a fair bit of time on a kitefoil tried this setup and was foiling in no time, though he was being a little gungho too soon I think so had two scary wipeouts, the latter which looked close to impaling himself on the foils! Shocked

I've not tried the kitefoiling, but from what I have heard is more difficult. I might give it a go this summer to see what it's all about.
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brand_adam



Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottybda wrote:
Hey thanks for that, I wasn't paying attention! Laughing

I think if you kitefoil it'll be easy. Last night my buddy who had a fair bit of time on a kitefoil tried this setup and was foiling in no time, though he was being a little gungho too soon I think so had two scary wipeouts, the latter which looked close to impaling himself on the foils! Shocked

I've not tried the kitefoiling, but from what I have heard is more difficult. I might give it a go this summer to see what it's all about.


Great videos Scotty, I also appreciated the board comparison. My first couple sessions kitefoiling I might as well have just bodydragged around with my ironing board, I would have had almost as much time up on the foil! It's crazy to me how well you're ripping in such a short time. Nice work!
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Foil Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Walked48,

Based on what you wrote, I'm going out on a limb here & just say you may not be a candidate for a foil. The areas you appear to be focused on are cost, transport & early planing.

Cost: Foils are expensive right now but the cost will start to drop as the market becomes flooded with foils by companies trying to cash in on the new fad.

Transport: If you get a foil that can be taken apart (add time) then it is quite easy to transport. However, if you get a one piece carbon foil it takes up a lot more three dimensional space than any other piece of windsurfing equipment.

Early planing: You really are not going to get that much of an edge in early planing. The edge will come from being able to use smaller sails & stay on the plane into lighter winds.

Coachg

Cost- start price $800-900, you can reuse large slalom, formula and sails under 9.0
Transportation- half of my minivan is empty now, no more big sails, big booms,masts. I hardly ever use my slalom board now, 2 board quiver covers 6-30+ kn range. If it's too much for foil it's 80l wave board conditions
Early planning- if you get big front wing and long fusilage, you can match or bit performance of formula+12m2 sail, but using 8-9m2
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio,

What is your weight and what board are you using? Sorry if I missed it earlier.
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scottybda



Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brand_adam wrote:


Great videos Scotty, I also appreciated the board comparison. My first couple sessions kitefoiling I might as well have just bodydragged around with my ironing board, I would have had almost as much time up on the foil! It's crazy to me how well you're ripping in such a short time. Nice work!


yeah I have found it pretty straightforward to be honest and the performance at least of the Starboard race foil is impressive. On that freeformula with a 10m sail I could never match the angles upwind and downwind of the foiling moths. Yet with a non cambered 8m sail I'm going where they go and I feel with a wider tail board I'd be able to crank even harder upwind.

I'll have to upload the latest footage as it's pretty cool when your moth buddy is working hard to lose you and you are still there! Cool

Gybing is interesting as I notice when you go into it foiling fast the pressure to flip the rig is really hard. So my best gybes have been foiling and as it slows down some I flip and the board touches down and then I power up to pop back up again. I guess in time will get the motion down.
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Sergio,

What is your weight and what board are you using? Sorry if I missed it earlier.

I'm 135lb, I have custom Tillo foil board and foil. Board is 206*86 125l apprx. Foil, long fusilage, 66 mast, front wing 820 cm2;;; as max sail I use 7.0 m2 Avanti tempest, 3 cams race sail.
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