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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 816

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Another possible convert? I'm surprised, although the smooth glide and light feel is appealing for oldsters like me.
I keep reminding myself...why windsurf at all?...speed, carve, and jump.
Speed will get there, with smaller front wings and longer fuselages.
Carve is going to always have an indirect, somewhat disconnected feel, similar to snowboarding in variable density powder..not necessarily a negative.
Jump seems eerily similar to kiteboarding, where mechanical rather than bio, makes the results.
Lighter riders, less than maybe 170 lbs., find less early planing benefits to foiling over heavier riders. With appropriate gear, of course.


I am not sure why this should be a "conversion". It is not that foil vs regular windsurfing (vs Kite, vs sailing) are religions. And even if they were: Unitarian Universalism is a nice solution.

The only thing that is keeping me away from foil are the Bay Area conditions (and my somewhat compromised physical state that makes me more "wimpy"). Typical 15-25 knots during the season, big gradients, and the lack of off season steady light winds.

Otherwise I would already own a foil. Just a short taste reminded of my youth technical sail racing and I am sure I would be hooked in a blink!
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3808
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting, knowing you as a very good sailior with gear to match almost all wind conditions, except that "7-10" mph stuff..which we never get as longterm or steady.
For us lightweights, the benefits seem much smaller foil vs windsurf. Qualify that having the correct gear.
Most foilers I know need a huge adjustment to switch from one to another, taking as long as fully half their session to feel comfortable again. That's almost a wasted session. Most foilers only foil.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 816

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
That's interesting, knowing you as a very good sailior with gear to match almost all wind conditions, except that "7-10" mph stuff..which we never get as longterm or steady.
For us lightweights, the benefits seem much smaller foil vs windsurf. Qualify that having the correct gear.
Most foilers I know need a huge adjustment to switch from one to another, taking as long as fully half their session to feel comfortable again. That's almost a wasted session. Most foilers only foil.

Yep. that was exactly my point. If we had somewhat steady 7-10 knots (force 3) I would not hesitate, but we do not. At my weight my Isonic 111 + 7.3 is about enough at maybe around the 11-13 knots mark, so the foil would gain almost nothing in the Bay. Still it is a new water sport and I am tempted.
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:


Actually, this is a downwind slalom race. The only difference is they race upwind to the start of the slalom course & run the slalom course twice. And now with drones we can actually watch the races from close up.

So much more entertaining then an Olympic RSX race.

Coachg


Yes, it is a great format that combines the best of both worlds- Upwind, header/lift and lay line tactics, with the speed and jibing of the downwind slalom. Fun!

Now they just need to add in some forced jumps in the middle of the downwind part (a la Super Cross) and they'll have all of the bases covered Laughing

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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The local Foiler said he couldn't WS anymore. Sounds like it's no Joke? Not something to dabble at?


dllee wrote:

Most foilers I know need a huge adjustment to switch from one to another, taking as long as fully half their session to feel comfortable again. That's almost a wasted session. Most foilers only foil.
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the topic of going back/ forth from windfoil to regular windsurfing
from someone who actually does it weekly.
Going to wave gear from windfoil I have zero issues, but switching from foil to slalom takes 15-20 minutes to re-tune yours senses.
On the other hand, the sensesion of foiling is so much more fun to me vs. bof on slalom. I hardly ever use slalom board anymore.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have not tried foiling & the opportunity comes along you should give it a try. It is not exactly the same feeling as windsurfing but it is new & fun.

But after a while the new coolness of foiling will fade and practicality will take over. In a place like S.F. where you can expect at least 15-25 mph all season & 0-5 in the off season the lack of 7-12 mph days could easily leave your foil sidelined for a long time. You can foil in 15-25 but launch & recovery along with transport & setup of regular windsurfing gear is so much easier than a foil setup not to mention so many more options with regular windsurfing vs. foiling (B&J, Freetyle) in that wind speed.

I think foiling in S.F. will be pushed along by the F4 model where they have simply taken the nuclear arms race in formula to a new level by switching 70 cm expensive fins for more expensive 95 cm foils. It is good to see but I do not think the average Joe is going to want to follow that model.

As an instructor I made the full commitment to learning foiling this spring. I picked up a brand new Naish foil, Hover 122 & 5.7 Lift sail & I sidelined my normal light wind gear for the spring and have only used regular windsurfing gear in winds over 15 mph. This summer when I start heading down to Sherman Island I expect to sideline my foil for the wind reasons stated above.

For what it is worth, here are some observations for a 170 lb windsurfer on foiling over the last few months.

It has not increased my sailing days. I cannot foil in lighter winds then I can windsurf in. I can glide farther through holes but the foil needs the same amount of wind to pump up into the air as I need to pump up onto a plane.

It is more physically demanding than regular windsurfing for me. This was a bit of a surprise to me but with foiling I rig under powered because the foil is so efficient once you start flying. Once up on the foil it is far less demanding as I only use my harness for slogging & immediately get out of the harness when it comes time to pump up onto the foil. Once on the foil I stay out of the harness. I could probably fix this by using a larger sail & harness when foiling but then I would be using the same size sail as I do for light wind windsurfing so why would I need the foil?

Foiling is quiet, smooth & effortless. It is just a surreal feeling as you float along. It is a different but addictive feeling from windsurfing.

Foiling requires deep, weed free water of which I have plenty. It also helps to have an easy launch-I launch off of a floating dock that is only 8" above the water. I can easily see having to carry the setup-heavy & awkward-a long way or having to launch in a sketchy/rocky environment as a major issue.

To summarize, foiling is not going away, it will evolve & become less expensive & it is fun. However, it will not be the ideal setup for everyone & is probably not going to improve your sailing days if you are a light to middle weight efficient windsurfer. If you are a heavy weight & live in a foil friendly location, it could be a game changer.

Coachg
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coach, based on the description of your foiling experience, you still in the initial stages of it, it's different beast and it takes lots of time to dial in and fine tune your gear and skill for most. Foiling does need deep water, but actually handles weeds much better than formula.
Going into harness, early planning, less physical ride will come in due time. In the beginning I was out of breath after 10 minutes of foiling and I experimented with harness lines positions forever...
Still learning after 1.5 year
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio,
I do not think you read my entire post. I do not use a harness when foiling & my shortest foiling session, including day 1 has been 2 hours on the water without a break. I've put in multiple 3 hour sessions in April & May. Once up on the foil there has been absolutely no effort so why use a harness? The only effort comes in pumping up onto the foil on the lighter days.

I don't have any weeds where I sail so I will trust you that a foil handles weeds better than a fin even though that does't make much sense.

Coachg
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, read whole thing. Most of your statement s, like not getting better performance in light wind, physical to pump, why do I need harness, are what foiling in beginning is.
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