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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:17 am Post subject: |
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coboardhead wrote: | First of all the left hasn't flooded the borders with "illegals". We can thank Reagan for that. Obama decreased the level of illegal immigrants.
Secondly. According to the Huffington Post.
25% of homeless are children
10 to 15% are Vets
20% are severely mentally ill
90% of the homeless women have been abused
In addition, the cost of housing leaves even those with employment unable to afford housing in a lot of places.
Sure, "illegal" immigrants do take some jobs. But, really, how much could they reduce the numbers of the population I mentioned above. Is there any data? |
Not true...selective facts. Reagan wanted the cheap labor for our economy but he didn't hand out free housing, EBT cards, in state tuition, driver licenses, give them a backhanded way to vote, or protect them from our written laws.
Obama played with numbers and definitions. To say he lowered the numbers is comical.
We have a SERIOUS immagration problem. Just listen to dems from 10,15, 20 years ago. They sound exactly like Trump..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/?utm_term=.1b9c4e2993d8 |
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wsurfer
Joined: 17 Aug 2000 Posts: 1635
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:47 am Post subject: |
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It's immigration by the way.
You do have a good imagination though.
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: |
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mat-ty wrote: | coboardhead wrote: | First of all the left hasn't flooded the borders with "illegals". We can thank Reagan for that. Obama decreased the level of illegal immigrants.
Secondly. According to the Huffington Post.
25% of homeless are children
10 to 15% are Vets
20% are severely mentally ill
90% of the homeless women have been abused
In addition, the cost of housing leaves even those with employment unable to afford housing in a lot of places.
Sure, "illegal" immigrants do take some jobs. But, really, how much could they reduce the numbers of the population I mentioned above. Is there any data? |
Not true...selective facts. Reagan wanted the cheap labor for our economy but he didn't hand out free housing, EBT cards, in state tuition, driver licenses, give them a backhanded way to vote, or protect them from our written laws.
Obama played with numbers and definitions. To say he lowered the numbers is comical.
We have a SERIOUS immagration problem. Just listen to dems from 10,15, 20 years ago. They sound exactly like Trump..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/?utm_term=.1b9c4e2993d8 |
Reagan signed into law an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Obama enforced immigration laws previous Presidents had not. Regardless of your sources views. To blame the immigration "problem" on one party (you did write "flood") is what I have a problem with. That doesn't advance the conversation. We cannot blame the problem of homelessness on Obama and we cannot solve it by kicking out every Mexican we meet.
That said. I still haven't heard your solution to the problem of homelessness. What do you do with the Vets? The children? The mentally ill? How does evicting illegal immigrants help with this? These folks add up to over 50% of the homeless population. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
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CB—since I’m still involved in setting water policy and my home city, I’ve grappled with the homeless problem. Matty is, as usual, sure of himself, bigoted—and dead wrong. Berkeley has about 650 homeless that cost the city about $17 million a year. Not a cost leader in the $300 million plus budget. Most of them are long-term residents of Alameda County. About 75% of them are mentally ill, and only about 25% of them are addicted. Contrary to the opinions of some on the right, they have civil rights—enforced here by activists and attorneys. They can sleep on a park bench in the daytime and ask you for money without being arrested. The decline of manufacturing and lack of support for mental health are certainly factors. I have no easy solutions, and it is not my direct responsibility. Sometimes if you inform yourself, you realize that things are more complicated than your first opinion. Here, the Mayor and Council are trying to gather the various programs that interact with the homeless and coordinate them into an effort that begins to get them into housing. I hope it works—but it is very difficult. Virtually none of the homeless are undocumented immigrants.
Turning to Texas and bigotry. It is pretty clear that the Texas bomber was a Christian zealot who targetted people of color. Terrorism by any measure. Those who argue that racism is not alive and well in Texas are just not paying attention to the scapegoating and voter suppression of Hispanics. But irony seems completely lost. Matty gets his panties in a twist because I mention dragging—when another series of racist attacks is going on. He is right that it is wrong to blame the entire populace of Texas for the actions of unhinged racists. But he misses the point that it is equally wrong to blame crime on a few incidents involving undocumented immigrants. The shooting of Kate Steinle resulted in a not guilty verdict because most of the evidence pointed to an accidental discharge. There was no evidence that showed the man charged actually stole the gun. But if you subscribe to fake news, you can readily scapegoat “illegal immigrants” for everything. No real facts required.
Finally, the number and source of undocumented immigrants in California and the made up charge that liberals support open borders. There are 700,000 agricultural workers in California, most of them undocumented and most of them fled violence in Mexico. They are here, in part, because the immigration policies championed by Ronald Reagan left vast room for what was once the Bracero program. His support by Republican corporate growers, and antipathy to Cesar Chavez and the farm labor movement were the reasons. I fully support arrest and deportation of any undocumented immigrants guilty of a serious crime—which in my mind does not include merely crossing the border. I also realize that we cannot deport 700,000 from California, and we would not have harvests if we did. I also realize we cannot detect and ticket everyone who runs a stop sign. We have to set priorities. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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coboardhead wrote: | mat-ty wrote: | coboardhead wrote: | First of all the left hasn't flooded the borders with "illegals". We can thank Reagan for that. Obama decreased the level of illegal immigrants.
Secondly. According to the Huffington Post.
25% of homeless are children
10 to 15% are Vets
20% are severely mentally ill
90% of the homeless women have been abused
In addition, the cost of housing leaves even those with employment unable to afford housing in a lot of places.
Sure, "illegal" immigrants do take some jobs. But, really, how much could they reduce the numbers of the population I mentioned above. Is there any data? |
Not true...selective facts. Reagan wanted the cheap labor for our economy but he didn't hand out free housing, EBT cards, in state tuition, driver licenses, give them a backhanded way to vote, or protect them from our written laws.
Obama played with numbers and definitions. To say he lowered the numbers is comical.
We have a SERIOUS immagration problem. Just listen to dems from 10,15, 20 years ago. They sound exactly like Trump..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/?utm_term=.1b9c4e2993d8 |
Reagan signed into law an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Obama enforced immigration laws previous Presidents had not. Regardless of your sources views. To blame the immigration "problem" on one party (you did write "flood") is what I have a problem with. That doesn't advance the conversation. We cannot blame the problem of homelessness on Obama and we cannot solve it by kicking out every Mexican we meet.
That said. I still haven't heard your solution to the problem of homelessness. What do you do with the Vets? The children? The mentally ill? How does evicting illegal immigrants help with this? These folks add up to over 50% of the homeless population. |
Not one vet should be homeless, Inexcusable for the richest country in the world... Control immigration and stop giving money to countries that hate us would be a good start. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Since a disproportionate number of veterans are homeless and mentally ill, what do you propose to do about it? Your best buddy the Orange peril has cut funding for homeless and mental illness services.
Blaming immigrants may make you feel better but does nothing for the problem. More wars in foreign countries don't help either. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | CB—since I’m still involved in setting water policy and my home city, I’ve grappled with the homeless problem. Matty is, as usual, sure of himself, bigoted—and dead wrong. Berkeley has about 650 homeless that cost the city about $17 million a year. Not a cost leader in the $300 million plus budget. Most of them are long-term residents of Alameda County. About 75% of them are mentally ill, and only about 25% of them are addicted. Contrary to the opinions of some on the right, they have civil rights—enforced here by activists and attorneys. They can sleep on a park bench in the daytime and ask you for money without being arrested. The decline of manufacturing and lack of support for mental health are certainly factors. I have no easy solutions, and it is not my direct responsibility. Sometimes if you inform yourself, you realize that things are more complicated than your first opinion. Here, the Mayor and Council are trying to gather the various programs that interact with the homeless and coordinate them into an effort that begins to get them into housing. I hope it works—but it is very difficult. Virtually none of the homeless are undocumented immigrants.
Turning to Texas and bigotry. It is pretty clear that the Texas bomber was a Christian zealot who targetted people of color. Terrorism by any measure. Those who argue that racism is not alive and well in Texas are just not paying attention to the scapegoating and voter suppression of Hispanics. But irony seems completely lost. Matty gets his panties in a twist because I mention dragging—when another series of racist attacks is going on. He is right that it is wrong to blame the entire populace of Texas for the actions of unhinged racists. But he misses the point that it is equally wrong to blame crime on a few incidents involving undocumented immigrants. The shooting of Kate Steinle resulted in a not guilty verdict because most of the evidence pointed to an accidental discharge. There was no evidence that showed the man charged actually stole the gun. But if you subscribe to fake news, you can readily scapegoat “illegal immigrants” for everything. No real facts required.
Finally, the number and source of undocumented immigrants in California and the made up charge that liberals support open borders. There are 700,000 agricultural workers in California, most of them undocumented and most of them fled violence in Mexico. They are here, in part, because the immigration policies championed by Ronald Reagan left vast room for what was once the Bracero program. His support by Republican corporate growers, and antipathy to Cesar Chavez and the farm labor movement were the reasons. I fully support arrest and deportation of any undocumented immigrants guilty of a serious crime—which in my mind does not include merely crossing the border. I also realize that we cannot deport 700,000 from California, and we would not have harvests if we did. I also realize we cannot detect and ticket everyone who runs a stop sign. We have to set priorities. |
One t in targeted nitwit. Again you label 28 million people racist by the actions of a handful. I wish you had the same standards for radical Islam. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | Since a disproportionate number of veterans are homeless and mentally ill, what do you propose to do about it? Your best buddy the Orange peril has cut funding for homeless and mental illness services.
Blaming immigrants may make you feel better but does nothing for the problem. More wars in foreign countries don't help either. |
We spend BILLIONS on illegals every year. We could easily solve the problem with those wasted funds .......ILLEGAL. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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When you don’t have facts or an argument—you invent some facts.
We would all be happy if you would start checking your own spelling. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 7850
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