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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except Utah. Maybe it's all the praying ;*) . To me it actually looks more like Southern states have shorter life spans regardless of political affiliation.
I've been down there. I'm thinking food that's not so good for you, and a
culture that really really craves that food.

-Craig

coachg wrote:


Not saying conservationism shortens life, I'm saying there is a strong correlation. Too many factors to identify. Lower education, less environmental regulation, higher suicide rate,???? I have no idea why conservative states have such short life expectancy's, but the facts are that they do. So when people like you start bitching about Ca & telling us we need to be more like the red states, well

Rolling Eyes

And voting doesn't work any better than praying. Liberal in office; deficit goes up. Conservative in office; deficit goes up. I have not voted for President in the last two elections & my life hasn't changed one bit.

Coachg
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
California Taxes, Over-Regulation Force 1,800 Businesses To Relocate
December 21, 2018 By Randy DeSoto

California – notorious for high taxes and a stifling regulatory environment – reportedly saw 1,800 businesses either relocate or disinvest from the state in 2016.

Business relocation consultant Joe Vranich wrote concerning the results of a new study he authored that he is advising clients “to leave the business-hostile state because its business climate continues to worsen,” according to Investors Business Daily.

Vranich, president of Spectrum Location Solutions LLC, noted that the 1,800 “disinvestment events” that occurred in 2016 were the most since 2008.
Additionally, 13,000 companies left the state during that nine-year period.
“Departures are understandable when year after year CEOs nationwide surveyed by Chief Executive Magazine have declared California the worst state in which to do business,” Vranich said.

“The top reason to leave the state no longer is high taxes,” he said. “The legal climate has become so difficult that companies should consider locating in jurisdictions where they will be treated fairly.”

One business regulation Vranich cited was California’s new Immigrant Worker Protection Act, which fines companies for following federal immigration law.
The consultant pointed out the law creates a dilemma for business owners: face fines either from the state or from the federal government.

“Think about it. California may penalize someone in business who is a legal citizen operating a legal business that is in compliance with every federal, state and local law, who pays state and local taxes, and who creates employment – and all that counts for nothing in the state’s eyes,” Vranich said. “Signs are that California politicians’ contempt for business will persist.”
Vranich argued that it’s not just this new law, it’s the plethora of other laws and regulations California businesses must comply with and the concern of what may be coming down the line.

The American Tort Reform Foundation said California is among the nation’s worst “Judicial Hellholes” for businesses.

According to the Vranich, three previous California governors – Gray Davis, Pete Wilson and George Deukmejian – have cited earlier versions of his business climate study to raise awareness of why companies are leaving the Golden State.

The top states where businesses are relocating, ranked in order, are: Texas, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, Washington, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Virginia.

The top 10 urban areas gaining from the California exodus are Austin, Texas; Reno, Nevada; Las Vegas; Phoenix; Seattle; Dallas; Portland, Oregon; Denver; San Antonio; and Scottsdale, Arizona.

Among the businesses that have left the state in recent years are Toyota, Occidental Petroleum, Chevron, Nestle USA, Carl’s Jr., Jamba Juice and Numira Biosciences, according to Chief Executive Magazine.
There was a net outflow of approximately 143,000 Californians leaving in 2016 over people moving in from other states, based on numbers from the U.S. Census Bureau.

The only reason the state’s population is not decreasing overall is due to the 100,000-plus people per year immigrating into California from other countries and the birth rate exceeding the death rate in the state.
In addition to business regulations driving people from the state, The Sacramento Bee reported that California lawmakers are concerned about the wealthiest residents fleeing due to high taxes.

California has the highest top income tax bracket in the nation at 13.3 percent, and its treasury receives a disproportionate 44 percent of income tax revenues from the top 1 percent of wage earners.

Vranich said he is glad he took his own advice and moved his business from California to the Pittsburgh suburb of Cranberry Township.
“I moved for three reasons — taxes, regulations and quality-of-life,” he said. “First, I’ll have greater freedom in my business now that I’m free of California’s notorious regulatory environment and threats of frivolous lawsuits that hurt small businesses like mine.”

“Finally, we are enjoying a superior qualify-of-life here. We bought a house larger than what we had in California for about half the cost. We can afford to engage in more activities because the cost-of-living in Cranberry Township is 44 percent lower than in Irvine.”

This article was originally published by Western Journalism


http://www.capoliticalreview.com/top-stories/california-taxes-over-regulation-force-1800-businesses-to-relocate/

I guess my question for those that live in California is: Are you concerned about the direction that your political leaders are taking the state?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--assuming that you have asked a legitimate question, not a troll, I'll answer. First, Randy Desoto and Western Journal are hard core conservative. Not just spin, but careless with facts. Second, there are more than 3.6 million small businesses in California. https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/advocacy/CA_1.pdf

The departure of 0.05% of those businesses does not mean much, for whatever reason. There is a healthy turnover rate among entrepreneurial efforts. Reasoning by anecdote doesn't carry much weight, particularly a tiny anecdote at that. Something like 30% of new businesses fail in the first year.

With that said, there is both good and bad news in California--but much better I think than on the national level. California is an expensive state, for many reasons. The climate is really nice, especially compared to Charleston in the summer. The economy is booming, so it is relatively easy to find a job. But the lack of a supply of housing within easy range of those jobs, and the entry level education requirements for the best jobs, have blown up the cost of housing even more than the other costs of living (and wages) have increased. This has been forty years in the making, and was pretty much inevitable, and certainly can't be blamed on the current politicians. California hasn't created any new land, perhaps we need some active volcanoes near the cities? The last freeway built was, I think, 710, but precious little money has been spent on new highways since 1984. The land within reasonable commuting range is getting pretty scarce, and NIMBY policies have made it difficult to build with any substantial density. Light rail helps, and I think it was a mistake for California to turn to high speed rail rather than more transit projects. So there is no easy way out of that problem.

I also deeply regret that the Republican party became the party of anti-immigration rather than good government. Liberals in the party were excoriated by the far right for not hating all government programs instead of focusing on those that didn't work. The collapse of the party at the state level after Pete Wilson supported an anti-immigrant measure has led to the current situation where Republicans have no statewide office seat, and no Republican votes are needed to pass the state budget. That collapse has given unions, and particularly municipal employee unions undue influence in public policy.

California's budget is in pretty good shape, but like all governments, it has trouble setting priorities among competing claims and loud shouting. While I believe that tax systems should be progressive, in California (and to a lesser extent at the national level) a lot of the tax revenue is provided by high income earners, and that revenue tends to be very volatile and falls during recessions. At the same time, the middle class demands programs that they are able, but not willing, to pay for. At the national level, we can see this with the high fixed costs that go into the military, social security, and medicare budgets. Those expenses--military and security, health, and social security--account for 69.5% of the federal budget, and the bulk of the benefits go to the middle class.

It is too easy to push conservative memes about California without digging a little. My wife is from a relatively small town in Wisconsin, where the average house costs about $160,000. I wouldn't live there, even if I could sell my house in California, buy a high end house and use the left over money to visit Europe for three months in the summer and Mexico in the winter. I tried to move to Oregon when I finished grad school, figuring that it was a place I could windsurf and I could cash out my house--then for about $250,000. But when I put together a budget with the salaries I was being offered, I couldn't make it work on a cash flow basis.

By the way, I have been in and windsurfed in the Carolinas. I wouldn't live there if you paid me.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac said:
Quote:
By the way, I have been in and windsurfed in the Carolinas. I wouldn't live there if you paid me
.
It's a hell hole in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area. Universities up wazoo, UNC, NC State, Duke; the Research Triangle with lot's of high tech jobs available; not much traffic (compared to large cities); the mountains are 3 hrs. away and the OBX 3.5 hours away with unlimited windsurfing opportunities (ocean or sound). Housing going up faster than one can imagine because of the influx of north easterners running from the crappy weather, congestion and the high cost of living. Plus an overwhelming number of medical care facilities.

Taxes are generally low, but there is a State Income Tax of 5.25%. Most new housing in the nicer areas go for about $150 - $200 sq. ft. Property (real estate) tax is .74% of the property value.

Plenty of water, clear air (the "triangle area" is powered by nuclear. Four seasons but nothing extreme other than occasional heavy rain when a hurricane passes near by and a few days of snow (average 4" per year). Rain averages about 3.8" each month of the year.

Where I live we have a golf group of about 100 guys. We play twice a week and I have played over 40 different courses within an hour of my house and average less than $30 per round with a cart. We play year round.

North Carolina is number two in the country with solar power, but well behind California. Plenty of gas at or less than $2.50 per gal. for regular today. Sales tax is 7.25% (state, county, city combined)

It's hell here, but I can stand it.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having nothing better to do than play golf sounds like hell. 130 days of windsurfing and about 50 on a bike sounds better..
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
By the way, I have been in and windsurfed in the Carolinas. I wouldn't live there if you paid me
.
It's a hell hole in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area. Universities up wazoo, UNC, NC State, Duke; the Research Triangle with lot's of high tech jobs available; not much traffic (compared to large cities); the mountains are 3 hrs. away and the OBX 3.5 hours away with unlimited windsurfing opportunities (ocean or sound). Housing going up faster than one can imagine because of the influx of north easterners running from the crappy weather, congestion and the high cost of living. Plus an overwhelming number of medical care facilities.

Taxes are generally low, but there is a State Income Tax of 5.25%. Most new housing in the nicer areas go for about $150 - $200 sq. ft. Property (real estate) tax is .74% of the property value.

Plenty of water, clear air (the "triangle area" is powered by nuclear. Four seasons but nothing extreme other than occasional heavy rain when a hurricane passes near by and a few days of snow (average 4" per year). Rain averages about 3.8" each month of the year.

Where I live we have a golf group of about 100 guys. We play twice a week and I have played over 40 different courses within an hour of my house and average less than $30 per round with a cart. We play year round.

North Carolina is number two in the country with solar power, but well behind California. Plenty of gas at or less than $2.50 per gal. for regular today. Sales tax is 7.25% (state, county, city combined)

It's hell here, but I can stand it.



Have you ever met anyone more ignorant???...The Carolina's are beautiful with great recreation choices, including some the best kiting and WS in the country, and yes awesome golf....

What Mac the bigot is actually saying is he finds people from that area repulsive.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed, I hate the sight of confederate flags and 90% humidity. The barbecue is good, if you’re with a local but the ice tea and beer are terrible. Golf?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that we have a big North Carolina booster here that also happens to be a very vocal California detractor. It's hard to imagine so much angst from 2500 miles away, but I guess there's something deep going on that keeps eating away.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I also deeply regret that the Republican party became the party of anti-immigration rather than good government. Liberals in the party were excoriated by the far right for not hating all government programs instead of focusing on those that didn't work. The collapse of the party at the state level after Pete Wilson supported an anti-immigrant measure has led to the current situation where Republicans have no statewide office seat, and no Republican votes are needed to pass the state budget. That collapse has given unions, and particularly municipal employee unions undue influence in public policy.


Exactly what has been sending us out of the Republican party in droves and why the independent party now outnumbers the Republicans in CA.

Coachg
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
mac said:
Quote:
By the way, I have been in and windsurfed in the Carolinas. I wouldn't live there if you paid me
.
It's a hell hole in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area. Universities up wazoo, UNC, NC State, Duke; the Research Triangle with lot's of high tech jobs available; not much traffic (compared to large cities); the mountains are 3 hrs. away and the OBX 3.5 hours away with unlimited windsurfing opportunities (ocean or sound). Housing going up faster than one can imagine because of the influx of north easterners running from the crappy weather, congestion and the high cost of living. Plus an overwhelming number of medical care facilities.

Taxes are generally low, but there is a State Income Tax of 5.25%. Most new housing in the nicer areas go for about $150 - $200 sq. ft. Property (real estate) tax is .74% of the property value.

Plenty of water, clear air (the "triangle area" is powered by nuclear. Four seasons but nothing extreme other than occasional heavy rain when a hurricane passes near by and a few days of snow (average 4" per year). Rain averages about 3.8" each month of the year.

Where I live we have a golf group of about 100 guys. We play twice a week and I have played over 40 different courses within an hour of my house and average less than $30 per round with a cart. We play year round.

North Carolina is number two in the country with solar power, but well behind California. Plenty of gas at or less than $2.50 per gal. for regular today. Sales tax is 7.25% (state, county, city combined)

It's hell here, but I can stand it.


....But, don't go into a bar and request a Neil Young song, the locals wont like it....
true story : was WS'ing OBX in 2006, went into a bar in Kill Devil Hills with a bunch of WS'ers, a band was playing, taking requests, my buddy barked out, how about some Neil Young?....... The place went silent, you could hear a pin drop, and the lead singer, said , "not here", "not here"....
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