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Anybody on the east coast use a Northwave sail?
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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

Scale weight and dynamic, perceived -- especially rotational --weight comparisons can be vastly different,


It's a very good point. Rig weight and "weight-on-the-water" are two very different animals. Not sure if it is a big factor with 4.5 but definitely a game changer in 7.0+ range.

Andrei.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4377
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked WHAT material the rope is, on the auto batten system.

I made no comment on its longevity, ease of use .

I asked which sail is the lightest 4.5, I forgot that Northwave makes 4.2 or 4.7.

Since they created the Sinewave, which is the lightest wave sail yet, and they have a Surflite , Featherlight, I gather that weight is important using light weight as a selling point. They donít post weights.

The materials they show, technora scrim being the most performance oriented, 2other materials are above this, 60LSP- lightweight polyester scrim , and very pricy
45 HMT - High modulus twaron.

Since the weight is important on a 7.0, when itís considerably winder on a 4.5, it would follow to also be important.

I would not purchase the lightest sail, because it is the lightest.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18328

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
I asked WHAT material the rope is, on the auto batten system.

That's why I deferred that question to NW. I just added some additional, more useful information in case anyone wanted it. As long as it lasts, I don't care what material they use in their Autobatten system any more than I care what material Subaru uses in their crankshafts.

A Seatrend QC inspector once asked me several questions about a board I was testing ... weight, shape, construction, tail width, thickness, rocker, tail kick, and on and on. He was stunned at my answer, considering that I was the Test Director for the magazine doing the testing: "I have no clue and don't WANT to know. All that counts to buyers is how it sails, and too much information like that may bias our performance judgement."

U2U2U2 wrote:
I made no comment on its longevity, ease of use.

Ahh, but I did, in case you or anyone else wants to know.

U2U2U2 wrote:
I gather that weight is important using light weight as a selling point.


It probably is to some people. I knew a guy who carried around a high-precision digital scale and weighed every single component of every piece of WSing gear he wanted. His ONLY criterion for every fin, fin SCREW, footstrap (he'd soak them before weighing them), boom, sail, batten, BOARD, harness, harness line, outhaul/inhaul/downhaul line, etc. was its weight to two decimal places. I am not exaggerating. The weirdest part? He was a novice sailor, nowhere NEAR jibing. He simply assumed that weight was critical.

U2U2U2 wrote:
They donít post weights.

The only time the weight of my sails matters to me is when carrying it, in its bag, from my RV to the rigging spot. Even then, it doesn't matter a whole lot. In fact, I often carry a mast, or at least a mast base pad, to the lawn at the same time! It's amazin' what some gym time can do for us. Very Happy

U2U2U2 wrote:
The materials they show, technora scrim being the most performance oriented

That, again, depends on one's "performance" criterion. I used to choose the highest tech materials available for every piece of my sail. But as I learned more and re-evaluated my priorities, I rethought that mantra. I now PREFER dacron leeches in all my sails, PVC windows in certain sails, stock battens, and some other low-tech solutions. Everything has tradeoffs even when cost isn't a factor.

U2U2U2 wrote:
the weight is important on a 7.0, when itís considerably winder on a 4.5, it would follow to also be important.

But IS scale weight that important on a 7.0? After all, the board, not the sailor, is supporting its weight. During uphauling, the trapped water weight trumps the rig weight. When maneuvering or jibing, all those other factors I mentioned earlier come into play. I jibed my 7.5s the same way I jibe my 3.2 ... Throw, Throw, Grab, & Go ... so all those dynamic and AEROdynamic factors count. I'm guessing they still count, though maybe less, with really big sails. And low-end power matters WAY MORE -- Ken Winner's tests in WSing Mag suggested infinitely more -- than weight in early planing

"People" used to say Ezzy sails are heavy because they are built to last. Not only was their scale weight quite middle-of-the-pack (we weighed 'em by the scores every year), but many other sails, heavy and light alike, held up about as well. We didn't publish the weights because they didn't matter, just as WSing Mag stopped publishing board stiffness once they found out it doesn't affect performance, especially speed. Randy Reynolds' Multi-Sail, with all the zippers and heavy-duty materials? It felt very light and performed very well on the water. Go Figure.
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fox



Joined: 09 Sep 1997
Posts: 96
Location: Pine Point, Maine

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Anybody on the east coast use a Northwave sail? Reply with quote

northwave wrote:
We would love your feedback! What do you think of your sails? What colors would you like to see for custom options? Have you tried our new lightest sail yet, the Sinewave ?


I've used Northwaves on the east coast since '93. I've had numerous models; some hits, some misses. Construction quality has also been hit or miss over the years. But the construction of these 'lite sails is so minimal they are disposable.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18328

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never heard anyone disparage NW's durability, nor have I ever experienced any problems with them even after years of use (my 2012 3.2 still looks new.) I very often see extremely frequent, year-round, advanced to near-pro sailors using 10-15-years-old NWs. How long do ya WANT them to last?
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fox



Joined: 09 Sep 1997
Posts: 96
Location: Pine Point, Maine

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
I have never heard anyone disparage NW's durability


I have, from people who used to rep them, and now you have too. Sure, I also have some old Northwaves; small sizes we rarely use on the east coast, with pvc windows. The 5.7 featherlite I purchased most recently simply came apart at the seams after less than 10 uses.

There is a reason Northwave wants you to buy a new quiver every year...
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4377
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
At Northwave,
What material is used on the rope , in the autobatten system?

Which sail is the lightest weight in comparable size , say 4.5 ..? And what is the weight ..?


Remains a request for materials information ?

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18328

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very disappointing and an extremely surprising fluke. Someone forgot to glue your seams. I crash into my sails HARD every good session, and don't even bother to examine them afterwards because I know they're undamaged. Even the window hole from my hook (first one in at least 25 years) was of no consequence; I kept on sailing and taped it when it was convenient. My oldest and most-used sails are still rock solid, and the same goes for friends who bash the living crap out of their 15-yo Surflites year-round.

As for anyone wanting me to buy new quivers every year ... it's a no-brainer. I don't need any encouragement.
1. it's a win/win/win scenario.
a. It saves me money because it's at least as cost-effective as running them into the ground, giving them away, and buying new ones.
b. It stocks NW's used sails inventory, for which the demand is huge.
c. People who buy my sails get the newest-looking used sails around at great prices. I rig on grass and keep them in the shade when on shore.

2. No hassle for me. I order new sails, then drive to the loft and exchange my old sails and a fixed amount of money for the new quiver. No ads, no swap meet hassles or price wars, no haggling, no "Let's meet in Kalamazoo and look at them".

3. I always have clear windows so I can see the swell, the barges, and obstacles like fish nets, debris, and other sailors.

4. I can tweak my sail design often if I wish.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4377
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Anybody on the east coast use a Northwave sail? Reply with quote

fox wrote:
northwave wrote:
We would love your feedback! What do you think of your sails? What colors would you like to see for custom options? Have you tried our new lightest sail yet, the Sinewave ?


I've used Northwaves on the east coast since '93. I've had numerous models; some hits, some misses. Construction quality has also been hit or miss over the years. But the construction of these 'lite sails is so minimal they are disposable.


Fox, I always read your posts. From memory they are subjective , informative and along my thinking lines.

I feel you should point out your findings, in this case they differ from mine.
Iíve had 5 NW since 2000, they have been very durable, to the hit and miss comment.

Part that puzzles me is If these sails were disposable , what would keep you using them for 24 years ?

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2015
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely a disappointment, and probably an outlier. I have Surflights
which are 17 years old and still going, and I have a 5.2 Featherlight I've
used extensively the last 2 seasons, that is holding up well (and it was one
of Mike's used sails before that). I don't buy new quivers every year, I
typically run my sails into the ground. My 4.7 Surflight gets probably 30
to 40 hard days a year. I'm on year 7 of that sail right now.

.02

-Craig

fox wrote:
isobars wrote:
I have never heard anyone disparage NW's durability


I have, from people who used to rep them, and now you have too. Sure, I also have some old Northwaves; small sizes we rarely use on the east coast, with pvc windows. The 5.7 featherlite I purchased most recently simply came apart at the seams after less than 10 uses.

There is a reason Northwave wants you to buy a new quiver every year...
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