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Reassessment of twin cam sails and longish boards
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When was the last time you used a +7m sail Mike?
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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
justall wrote:
easy to pop the cams in a jibe.

One of the things I dislike most about cams is having to pop the frigging things after a jibe. Even the ones that pop themselves without conscious rider input are a PITA. I infinitely prefer the smooth, silky, completely transparent, effortless, continuous, self-induced rotation ... no pop ... "teflon-bearings" glide of a good camless sail when it changes from one side to the other. In jibes I throw away my rig, it rotates untouched in the air, and it returns to my hands a fraction of a second later sheeted in ... sometimes even hooked in ... on the new tack with no perceived loss of speed. It's how I first learned planing jibes 30 years ago, and I can't imagine going back to manhandling the rig through a turn.

Sure, it's a personal choice. But so is liver.
. Hah.

I have to say that when I am jibing frequently and playing aound on swells, I prefer the non-cams, too. When cruising in lighter winds, though, (like sailing across the Chesapeake with 15 mph N or S) or sailing without frequent flips or aggressive directional changes ... Ill take those sweet cams.


Last edited by justall on Sun May 06, 2018 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2160
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cams... they're a little bit like....centerboards. ;*)

-Craig


Last edited by cgoudie1 on Mon May 07, 2018 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18714

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
When was the last time you used a +7m sail Mike?

The biggest sail I've ever sailed or owned was a 7.5. The smallest was a 2.8. There were hundreds of sails in between, with cams numbering from none to 5 or 7 (?). Never ONCE did I enjoy the pop (or the rigging ... or derigging ... or waterstarting), and I jibed them all the same way. If camless sails are good enough for BP to race, they're good enough for me to play on. I consider cams much like statins; they help a very small and narrowly defined subset of the population while hampering a large majority. The biggest difference is that cams can't kill or cripple us, so they're about choice, not our health.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't answer my question Mike, try again.
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akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 106
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Doesn't answer my question Mike, try again.

Exactly. I'm not sure a couple cams make much difference when jibing a modern 9.8. For 4.7 sails and smaller, I would favor camless (if I owned any). Wink This forum is too funny. Oftentimes, I wish I lived somewhere where I, too, could struggle comprehending that for some of us, using a 7.5 is a medium-high wind day. Fortunately we have the internet now, where people who sail in light wind can connect. For me, I was a camless guy up to 8.0 for the light weight and versatility when sailing in the open ocean. Now that I have moved to an area where I predominately sail in a bay, I am revisiting freeride cammed sails.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18714

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want a date? Sorry ... don't have one. It's been years, by choice, even though it would at LEAST double a Gorge sailor's windsurfing opportunities.

As for adding a 9.8 to the comparison ...


Very Happy
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2623

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not used or needed a cam since the 1980s. I have no use or knowledge of sails with cams. I live in a windy location, my sail flips are epic & float back to my hands, I Oops, my bad. I just realized this topic was addressed to aficionados of twin-cam sails, something I know nothing about. My mistake, I should have not posted my useless opinion on a topic I know little about and have even less experience with.

John Doe

Rolling Eyes
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9153

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that there is a flexible and useful niche that many could leverage based on their needs and the conditions. That would be sails designed for removable cams. For years Bill Hansen of Windwing sails did just that, and I still have a number of them in my quiver. Maybe there are models that some brands are doing today, but it's not something that seems to be marketed to any strong degree.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3975
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can remove cams from any cammed sail and still sail it just fine.
I've removed 2 cams from Prisma, IQ, WARP, GP, Stealth, and 1 cam from Gaastra, Np, and several other race sails to make them easier to rig and softer to jibe.
Life is NOT all or nothing. Compromises can be achieved.
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