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Does the board help make the jibe
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StillSailin



Joined: 02 May 2001
Posts: 53
Location: Portland/Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Does the board help make the jibe Reply with quote

philodog,
Looking at videos of some beautiful jibes, it looks like the sail is kept powered up with an effort to not be de-powered any longer than necessary. Mike Fick described going into a jibe and the problem of taking too much time coming out of the turn hitting three waves in a row and getting bounced around! Yes, that's me.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18325

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Does the board help make the jibe Reply with quote

StillSailin wrote:
the problem of taking too much time coming out of the turn hitting three waves in a row and getting bounced around! Yes, that's me.

So whattarya waiting for ... a written invitation? Smile

Spin that sucker long before that point (this, from a guy who has developed a bad habit of waiting too late to match his ever-tightening/quicker carve.) It's all in the timing, unless you learn to bend your knees ever deeper and absorb the bumps better.

Mike Fick \m/
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One cause of hanging on to the sail too long is not reaching back far enough with the back hand and not sheeting in enough going into the jibe. This forms a negative feedback loop where the sail overpowers you so you lean back farther to compensate for it . If you let go of the sail when you`re leaning back you fall on your butt so people hang onto it for dear life until they go far upwind. If you reach back far and sheet in hard it gives you a lot more control of the power and allows you to carve leaning into the turn and flip the sail early. If you really want to carve like a master learn laydown jibes. It is one of the most satisfying, beautiful and useful moves in all of windsurfing.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2014
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+2

-Craig

philodog wrote:
One cause of hanging on to the sail too long is not reaching back far enough with the back hand and not sheeting in enough going into the jibe. This forms a negative feedback loop where the sail overpowers you so you lean back farther to compensate for it . If you let go of the sail when you`re leaning back you fall on your butt so people hang onto it for dear life until they go far upwind. If you reach back far and sheet in hard it gives you a lot more control of the power and allows you to carve leaning into the turn and flip the sail early. If you really want to carve like a master learn laydown jibes. It is one of the most satisfying, beautiful and useful moves in all of windsurfing.
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Goodwind



Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 160
Location: On water

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+3
IMO, laydown jibe is the most elegant of all jibes - if done correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvVLKwtuvyY
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lay+down+jibe
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18325

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My success rate on deliberate laydowns is 100%. Tried one according to a tip, made it, and quit while I was ahead (and while I had some semblance of balance left.) Now they're occasional accidental products of very tight, fast, way oversheeted gybes.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 994
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is another of those threads that make me wonder what some people consider a planing jibe. You only have to be planing going into a jibe?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18325

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westender wrote:
This is another of those threads that make me wonder what some people consider a planing jibe. You only have to be planing going into a jibe?

I see hundreds of jibes every day that indicate that thought: good, long-time Gorge sailors blaze into their jibes, sail downwind until they stall, manhandle their rig through 180 degrees by brute force, then start over. There's not a THING wrong with that, but their years of doing the same thing over and over thousands of times sort of makes me wonder whether they've even noticed that many jibers not only plane all the way through, but don't even slow down from one reach to the next.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 2794

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillsailin said:
Quote:
Mike Fick described going into a jibe and the problem of taking too much time coming out of the turn hitting three waves in a row and getting bounced around! Yes, that's me.


Venue and wind plays a big role on the "hitting three waves" issue. Shallow water, like the Outer Banks, the wave period (distance between peaks) is short. If your are moving at 25 mph and enter a gybe, it's impossible to carve a planing gybe without bumping over 2-3 waves 2 feet high. If you are going slow enough to snap a gybe between waves, you will not be planing at the exit. Deeper water gives you more time/distance (bigger wave period) to carve over maybe 0 or 1 wave to keep planing on exit, plus the swell/wave can help you maintain your momentum to stay planing.

You just have to deal with the bump, bump, bump using your legs to absorb the bumps to keep your speed up while carving.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18325

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Venue and wind plays a big role on the "hitting three waves" issue. Shallow water, like the Outer Banks, the wave period (distance between peaks) is short. If your are moving at 25 mph and enter a gybe, it's impossible to carve a planing gybe without bumping over 2-3 waves 2 feet high. If you are going slow enough to snap a gybe between waves, you will not be planing at the exit.

WSMag editor Tom James tested a Gorge Animal Bonzer in east coast chop and waves years ago. He concluded that it will jibe so tightly at speed that it will easily carve jibes within the space between east coast waves. I insist on that property in virtually all my boards, for several reasons including fun, rough water, balance problems, and getting and staying upwind. I say "almost" because I'm still experimenting with fins to get one of my 100L wave boards to do that, and my biggest board, a 114L Syncro, needs some serious extra input to do it. Most of the rest will carve a U-turn in just a few meters and well under one second -- at full speed with no more input than forefoot pressure in the back strap. It's one of the first tests I conduct when considering buying or keeping a board.

Of course, that presents challenges, including managing the tremendous G forces with tired legs (mine have collapsed at times), exiting clew first in switchstance at full speed while still hooked in if not jibing, spinning the sail that fast if jibing, and scaring the $#!+ out of idiots who were tailgating your leeward buttcheek. It's all part of the optional learning curves in this wildly versatile sport, and I find it infinitely more fun than freestyle, including tacking. But man, does it help tame tightly spaced chop/waves/swell ... along with bending the knees to absorb the bumps, whether they're calf or waist high.
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