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Let's improve our small board quick tack aka fast tack
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2124

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sea is not a river. On our coast the predominant winds are offshore. The nearest land in that direction is a couple of hundred miles away.

Any of us can safely use a (sinker) small wave board in such conditions PROVIDED we can mostly, or fairly often, plane to blast back upwind and safely in. But in lighter wind offshore conditions, especially in surf, nobody uses sinkers. A bigger board that can reasonably float your weight (I use 94 litres and a smaller easily handled sail) is required. You can then slog it back in if you are lucky with the surf.

Whether we non experts tack or gybe (gybing safer and surer) is really a side issue in tricky balancing situations where just getting back in safely is the real issue. (Unless we are using much bigger boards. Kona laughs at such minor offshore breeze problems!!)
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1594

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
The insistence that crept into the thread as it evolved that tacking is necessary indicates a narrow grasp of the challenge and its solutions.


This thread is about tacking, a windsurfing skill you lack. It is undoubtedly the superior way to get upwind, which is why it's the upwind transition of choice of experts in so many conditions. You can't do it. You don't know how to do it. It is outside of your comfort zone. Yet every year there are windsurfers who learn how to tack, or learn to tack smaller boards, or learn to tack their smallest boards. This thread is for those people, hence the title "Let's improve our small board quick tack aka fast tack".

Perhaps you should start a thread titled "upwind for people who can't tack and don't want to learn". Or call it "stuck on a plateau but happy" Or "never leave your comfort zone".

You really should take your own phony advice: "spend the whole session ... or every session in the whole day ... outside that comfort zone." If you worked at it you could probably learn to tack your smaller boards. Hitting those tacks is very exciting. Really. And once you have those you can try duck tacks. That's where I'm stuck...haven't hit one planing ever. Still trying though.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2457

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

1. "The Gorge" -- the thermally boosted lower Columbia) -- is >200 miles long. The river remains sailable and windy for another 100+ miles, and its direction of flow covers about 180 degrees of the compass rose. It has well over 70 launches (I've launched at 70). There are thus very few valid generalities about it.

2. There is no perceptible current in much of it (the river is usually too wide and deep out east).

3. In east winds the current flushes us downwind.


1. The vast majority of the people that go to sail at the Gorge sail in a window much smaller than 100 miles & at far fewer than 70 locations. Technically there are thousands of locations as there is in the S.F. Bay-they are just difficult to get to.

2. I'm sure much of the Gorge doesn't have a perceptible current, but the more popular ones do. People come to the Gorge to sail the endless ebb tide combined with the strong wind.

3. Really? Sailing east winds during the prime season is such a pain.


I'll trust you that someone in this thread said tacking was necessary, but most of the responses I remember were that tacking was BETTER for getting up wind, not necessary. I see lots of other methods of getting up wind by people like you who can't tack. Here is the list I've seen, many of which I'm sure you have already done many times.

A) Drop in the water & swim your gear if the tide is not that strong.

B) Wade through the muck or rocks if the water is shallow enough.

C) Walk of shame.

D) Stay down wind for 3-4 hours waiting for the tide to lighten, change or wind to pick up.

E) Call the Coast Guard.

D) Have a beer & watch other people sail until the tide changes or wind picks up to accommodate your limited skills.

F) Drive to a different location.

I'm sure I have missed some other techniques you have used. These are just the ones I have observed non-tackers using.

Coachg
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
[


Perhaps you should start a thread titled "upwind for people who can't tack and don't want to learn". Or call it "stuck on a plateau but happy" Or "never leave your comfort zone".


I think there needs to be a permanent Isobars thread where he can jack himself off listening to his own voice to his hearts content.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 436
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q: Why should you learn to tack a short-board?

A: Because everyone who's "good" can tack a short board.

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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2124

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that that's a valid argument Rigitrite. ( Because everyone who's "good" can tack a shortboard.) You could just as well claim that everyone who is good should be able to do all that complicated spinny freestyle kind of stuff, or be surfing Jaws or wherever, just to demonstrate the point.

Nobody disputes that tacking a wave board in a contest can give an advantage, just as tacking a longboard in racing does also (had to do that, or get left behind), but why should it matter to an otherwise competent windsurfer to feel that he must learn to do everything possible on a shortboard to be able to feel satisfaction?

I learnt long ago in other sports, that we all have a flair for certain moves, and an apathy towards others which for some reason don't seem to appeal to us. Naturally, we get more satisfaction from doing (and showing off) the things we like best. It's not that we can't learn to do the other things, but that we don't have a taste for them.

SO as for judging competence, who makes the rules and can therefore say one person must be better than another?

But hats off to Manuel for his enthusiasm and persistence in his looping quest. It clearly means a lot to him!
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For as exhausting and hilarious as it has been to follow this thread, it has served its purpose. For me , 60+ yo on the cruise control part of my wsurfing career, I am most definitely going to try to learn to tack my shortboard, I have been persuaded. At least once a session, I want to get quickly upwind. I watched several videos, ready to go for it the next time out.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rigitrite wrote:
Q: Why should you learn to tack a short-board?

A: Because everyone who's "good" can tack a short board.


B: Because it feels super cool.

C: Because it looks super cool.

D: Because it is challenging and will improve your overall windsurfing ability and keep you from doing the same thing over and over and over and over then getting bored and taking up kiting where you can look like a pro in 2 years.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went out yesterday in 11-15 knots on 5.0 and 105L. Wow... Very Happy well... 105L hides a lot of imperfections, it's incredible! It's nearly impossible to sink the nose even with awkward footing. It felt really strange to step out on the front of the board and have so much stability and support. A different sport!

So for someone used to tacking a 105L board doing, 75L will feel quite a bit different. With possibly the need to re-learn a few things.

Foot steering is different because the board needs more convincing to turn than a lower volume / smaller sized board and it stays afloat following the water various slopes and angles (swell, chop, wave, white water). So we need to play more with the board side tilt rather than spinning around like a toy top.

I'm hoping to get another light wind session today (I love lightwind tricks Smile ). Yesterday, I learned that at the upwind 360 the most important part was to look at the exit passed the "heli tack point of no return" kind of thing. It makes it much easier to understand where to place my body in relation to the sail power and board turning angle. There again the bigger board takes more time to swoosh around at the end so it's important to control that power, and be ready to lean back even more so in order to get that big thing to turn Very Happy !

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18325

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuel wrote:
Foot steering is different because the board needs more convincing to turn than a lower volume / smaller sized board

That depends far more on the board's design/shape/intent than its volume. I have boards >100L that slash well over 90 degrees in an instant with only toe pressure in the rear strap, and have ridden (but no way would I buy) 80L boards that demand heavy input from both feet and the rig, often also getting out of the back strap and stepping forward, and many STILL won't turn hard enough at speed in chop to satisfy me. Size matters within a particular shape, but shape still rules. Of course, fin design and size also makes a GIGANTIC difference.
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