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Light wind foiling: monster sail or bigger foil
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stringp



Joined: 20 Aug 2000
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Light wind foiling: monster sail or bigger foil Reply with quote

East winds yesterday. 18 east worked for a 5.7 and a Slingshot H2 for a couple of hours. Some guy went out on a foil with an 7.5 sail 4ish. Having an aversion to up hauling the Hinderburg I watched. So, is the future big sails or modular wings where you adjust your front foil based on conditions?
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3620

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logically, both.
I wondered why it took all of two year's ago, and part of last year, for the foil designer's and rider's to finally figure out the front wing is just another adjustment, like sail size, fin size, or accelerator pedal, or gear?
Antoine had slalom speed because he's 235 lbs., and needed much extra board speed to stabilize on foil, so he went faster than most other foil rider's, but had lower angles.
A lot of Foil Course racer's use 7.5 sized sails to power their smaller wings up and downwind with great VMG effect, even in winds of 16-23 mph, where a 5.6 meter sail would "seem" to perfectly power a foil around the course.
There probably will soon be standardized front wing sizes, S, M, L, maybe XL, for the various purposes that foiling can provide. And I'm sure it will soon include rear wing size adjustments as well, and even fine tuning of the mast length, chord, and thickness.
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gorky



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AA used 9.4 sail in the PWA races and is leading foil and slalom as well. In a Miami race this year, AA used 7.8 in winds gusting over 25, I was overpowered on 5.6. Being from Florida, my most used sail is 7.8, I can pump onto a plane with my 80 cm. Wing at about 9-10 mph.

I arrived late yesterday to Stevenson,rigged 7.0 and really had a fun session, once my stabilizer was properly adjusted
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gorky



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AA used 9.4 sail in the PWA races and is leading foil and slalom as well. In a Miami race this year, AA used 7.8 in winds gusting over 25, I was overpowered on 5.6. Being from Florida, my most used sail is 7.8, I can pump onto a plane with my 80 cm. Wing at about 9-10 mph.

I arrived late yesterday to Stevenson,rigged 7.0 and really had a fun session, once my stabilizer was properly adjusted
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this will depend a lot on sailor size and intended use. Freeride going bigger wing, racing bigger sail.

I have the Fwind1 and I'd be happy sacrificing some top end for bottom even though it's already not a fast foil.
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stringp



Joined: 20 Aug 2000
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Z Reply with quote

I also have the Fwind1. Not fast, but love the goofy loopy feel of it.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jumbo sails... yeah. I used an 11m sail one time this summer. I've only done it a handful of times... still very much a novice, just trying to go in a straight line.
11m with an LP foil and a formula board on Lake Washington.

_________________
Greg
Seattle, WA
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84
Sailing long and short boards, every year since then.
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stringp



Joined: 20 Aug 2000
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tried the H3 wing from Slingshot. it has much less lift than the H2 that comes with the Fwind1. so, more speed. had a hard time getting enough speed to get it to lift. it would lift and drop, lift and drop much like the LP I demoed. upwind performance was compromised since I had to go down wind so hard to get it on a foil. Slingshot uses the same rear wing with all front wings. maybe too much down force? don't know.
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ericandholly



Joined: 20 Jun 1999
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize that the question is specifically about light wind, but in general terms yours is a great question, regardless, and one i am currently exploring, but with kitefoil.

All of the SS wings work on everything--kite/windsurf/SUP--so i have been trying a bunch of them. Ironically, for light wind and flat water AND heavy wind with big swell I have found the H4 to be an absolute blast. For light, it has a lot of lift and I can ride without having to carry a large kite (I don't like large kites, nor did I like anything above a 5.5 when I was windsurfing. Clearly, I was not a racer). For heavy wind and big swell, the H4 wing tops out at a speed that I can actually surf the swell, rather than outrun it. It's a super easy wing to ride, and get going on, so I find myself trying all kinds of things I perhaps would not, on a faster wing. On any kind of swell face, gravity gives you enough speed to remain on foil. I feel like I am surfing, rather than kitesurfing. I love it.

I think it really comes down to the type of ride you want. Speed dictates one setup, whereas, loose, playful, easy is another. I am increasingly drawn to the latter. If you are super skilled--Fred Hope, Tony Logosz--you can do both simultaneously on whatever.

I think the sport is changing fast, and there will be very cool developments each 6 months for a few years. For now, I am using gear that is easier, and more fun to ride for me right now. I don't want to fight my wings. I am progressing much more quickly in the skills I want to acquire on this program, then I was on my faster wing. I have LOTS to learn on a stable wing. But, this is just me...

When I recharge my toy budget--currently blown to hell--I am going to start windsurf foiling too. It will be fun to see if I gravitate more towards speed, or swell. I suspect swell, but who knows? Regardless, the setup for each is different, IMO.


Eric
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stringp



Joined: 20 Aug 2000
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question was not specifically about light winds. I frequently windsurf foil on a 3.2 in 25 winds on the H2. Since the foil has one speed, loopy and slow, nothing really changes in higher winds except it's more fun in the swell. I'm gravitating to swell riding also. I'll see if Slingshot will take my H3 back in trade for a H5.
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