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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1458

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject: 11,780 Reply with quote

Mafia Don makes his move!!!
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1458

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mafia Don tells minions to march to the Capitol.

Our Law and Order President sows discourse and has ordered chaos!

Lock him up!!!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even Fox news is horrified—but are they really surprised?

Quote:
For the second consecutive day, MAGA fans rolled into Washington DC in their continued support of Trump and his baseless claims of a rigged election.

"We'll never give up. We'll never concede," Trump said. "We will not take it anymore."

Trump insisted: "This was not a close election."
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8731
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shots fired....not shocking. Cretins revolt.
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In defense of those storming the Capitol, if the allegations I just heard from House Republicans objecting the Arizona count were true, I think their actions would be justified.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR wrote:
In defense of those storming the Capitol, if the allegations I just heard from House Republicans objecting the Arizona count were true, I think their actions would be justified.


That is crazy. There have been weeks of accusations about irregularities in the election. Every one of them lost in court. There is no factual basis for the claims of fraud of any substantial extent. All of the creditable fraud accusations—a tiny number—were by supporters. The objections would not have been sustained today—which is why Trump has encouraged sedition.

In contrast to the workings of the established legal system, which threw out dozens of Trump lawsuits, today Trump incited a riot. Only the latest of his impeachable crimes.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2104

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arizona officials certified the results of the general election on Monday, confirming Democratic President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the state and clearing the way for Mark Kelly to take a seat in the U.S. Senate as soon as Wednesday.

The short event in the old state Capitol in Phoenix typically is a mere formality, scheduled by law for the fourth Monday after Election Day, long after the dust of campaign season ordinarily has settled.

But as President Donald Trump and many supporters have continued to dispute his defeat, the occasion drew national attention and served as a rebuttal of his claims of fraud and an affirmation of the state’s election process.

After protests and lawsuits, it was all a bit anticlimactic, too, simply confirming one more time what some analysts on election night said the presidential race would yield: a Biden victory in this battleground state.


Republican, Democratic officials confident in results
Secretary of State Katie Hobbs signed the official elections results, compiled from the final tallies of Arizona’s 15 counties, alongside Gov. Doug Ducey, Attorney General Mark Brnovich and Chief Justice Robert Brutinel.

Hobbs, a Democrat, touted high turnout despite the election unfolding in the midst of a pandemic and attributed much of that to the long-running popularity of voting by mail in Arizona and broader awareness of early in-person voting.

Voters cast more than 3.2 million ballots and turnout neared 80%, up from about 65% in 2018 and about 74% during the last presidential election in 2016, Hobbs said.

"Despite the unprecedented challenges, Arizonans showed up for our democracy," Hobbs said. "Every Arizona voter has my thanks and should know they can stand proud that this election was conducted with transparency, accuracy and fairness in accordance with Arizona’s laws and election procedures, despite numerous unfounded claims to the contrary."

Hobbs began the meeting by listing steps the state takes to ensure the security of the election, from auditing ballots by hand to testing equipment publicly and including all political parties in the tabulation process.

Ducey, a Republican who campaigned with Trump, expressed confidence in the election process.

"We do elections well here in Arizona. The system is strong and that’s why I bragged on it so much," he said.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/30/arizona-secretary-state-certify-election-results-monday/6444577002/
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, if people believe these Republican politicians, which is very easy when you listen to them - tens of thousands of votes changed, unlawful election rule changes by Democrats, etc - and you see courts and majorities in Congress giving in, then aren't you justified to conclude that the end of our republic is here unless you stop the steal by any means?

And wouldn't you have concluded the same if Trump had managed to find his 11,780 votes and more, and courts and majorities in Congress had succumbed? I mean, what do you do at that point? Storming the Capitol seems perhaps the right thing to do?

My point is that the people who are honestly believing the cynical Republican lies about the election and are storming the Capitol are much less guilty than Republican politicians.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True that. I listened to Hawley bullshit his way through claims about the Pennsylvania elections while the discussion was about Arizona. His concern is that the the state of Pennsylvania changed the rules for this election to allow absentee ballots. He argued that this change was not consistent with the state Constitution--and that Congress was the only venue for addressing those concerns. That is utter nonsense. The states, not Congress, are responsible for administration of their voting laws. Pennsylvania adopted these rules in response to an emergency--COVID. The objections to this system went to the State Supreme Court, which rejected the appeal as not timely. As I understand it, they found that there was plenty of time to raise these questions before the election--but Republicans did not raise them before the election. Only when Pennsylvania went to Trump did a court case arise. Hawley has invented a role for Congress that does not exist in the Constitution--as an effort to position himself for a presidential run in 2024. He knows better, and this kind of anti-Constitutional pandering is exactly what the Republicans are guilty of. They indeed do know better.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR wrote:
mac, if people believe these Republican politicians, which is very easy when you listen to them - tens of thousands of votes changed, unlawful election rule changes by Democrats, etc - and you see courts and majorities in Congress giving in, then aren't you justified to conclude that the end of our republic is here unless you stop the steal by any means?

And wouldn't you have concluded the same if Trump had managed to find his 11,780 votes and more, and courts and majorities in Congress had succumbed? I mean, what do you do at that point? Storming the Capitol seems perhaps the right thing to do?

My point is that the people who are honestly believing the cynical Republican lies about the election and are storming the Capitol are much less guilty than Republican politicians.



LHDR—I don’t accept your premise of “honestly believing the cynical Republicans”. Demonstrations are a constant element in Washington—and a constitutionally protected right by all, whatever their political views. But there is ample evidence on social media that extremist, often white supremacist groups, came to Washington intending to support Trump violently. The people arguing that the election ws stolen are Trump and his enablers. They lost. They lost so badly that it took down Purdue and Loeffler. They lost so badly that the Senate accepted the votes—by 97-2.

If crazy people keep electing crazy Representatives, or craven Representatives, or ambitious jerks like Hawley, you will hear those representatives lie to them. But pay attention to the arrests that were made today, and that will follow based on video evidence. There will be ample evidence that they are homegrown terrorists belonging to white supremacist groups who came intending to do violence.

This was sedition by Trump. He has done more damage to this country than the 19 terrorists who hijacked planes and flew them into the twin towers and the Pentagon. More than 100,000 Americans are dead today because of his incompetent and dishonest response to COVID. Four more killed today.
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