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A certain 9m sail
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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 111
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: A certain 9m sail Reply with quote

Anyone know of one out there that happens to use a 460 mast and possibly has a boom cutout? Or a sail around that size. Looking for a good deal on a new one.

Should a big sail for light Wind be cammed?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1988
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: A certain 9m sail Reply with quote

Sailworks Retros pull like a freight train, and don't have cams, but you'll be hard pressed to find anything that big that rigs on a 460. I'm thinking 490 min. In Utah I ride a 9.5 and the thing is planable down to 12MPH with me on it.

-Craig

rtz wrote:
Anyone know of one out there that happens to use a 460 mast and possibly has a boom cutout? Or a sail around that size. Looking for a good deal on a new one.

Should a big sail for light Wind be cammed?
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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 111
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

40% carbon 490 mast is ~$200 from Chinook so another mast is no problem.

Light Wind for me is anything under 10mph. I want to be able to plane in any and all wind conditions.

Back in the day; did they make any 14-16m sails?
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 993

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well rtz, If you want to plane in all wind conditions, then you will have to look at non-wind powered vehicles, like a jet-ski.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mast quality becomes critical in the longer sizes. A budget 40% 490 would not be a good performer.
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acalhounguy



Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a 9.5 retro or Lion. Get a 100% mast for absolute sure or don't bother with the big sail. It makes such a big difference. I purchased my KA 490 from windsurfdeal.com. Great mast and super-light at a great price.

I also have a 30% 490 mast which works ok. But for early planing (because of weight and response while pumping) and sail handling the 100% mast is a whole different experience. It's better to spend the money once rather than buy the cheap mast and then spend again for the right mast.

I'd go for a 2 cam again for a 9.5. It's going to plane through the lulls you'll have on a gusty lake. The Retro is so well regarded it may be just as good - I don't know as I've never been on one. The 2 cams rig about the same as a no-cam and I think due to holding their shape will stay on plane slightly better. The counter argument is ease of pumping but I think the Lion pumps fine so I'm not sure about that.
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acalhounguy



Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't bought all this stuff yet and your venue is conducive to it I'd get a foil instead. It will be cheaper - unless you're buying used.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1988
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Early planing has limits Reply with quote

Mr rtz,

Unfortunately the physics just won't allow planning much below 10MPH
winds, even if you are a light weight and have a 14M sail. It's a matter of
frictional drag as the sail size increases. You might be able to maintain
a plane at 8MPH once you get over your bow wake with a 12MPH puff, but
your criteria is unachievable on a standard windsurfer. As has been stated
try foiling, you should be good under 10MPH.

-Craig

p.s. my own experience is that anything above 9.5 is unproductive for more
planing power. A bigger sail will probably get you better angles, and
and maybe a little more coasting through lulls, but you won't plane earlier,
I own a 9.5 Retro, 100% SDM carbon mast, huge carbon boom, and a very
light 150 ltr board. The combination is great for light wind planning if combined with someone who knows how to pump efficiently. This kind of pursuit is very expensive for gear that is very specific (i.e., you won't be using it anytime except 10-15MPH. The lack of rebound in a 40% carbon
mast is palpable on huge sails, and will reduce your wind range
substantially (more like 12-14 ;*) ) If you want to glide around below
10MPH, a longboard is the ticket. There's a place for huge sails (I think I've seen 13M in the past), but that place is course racing steep angles.

rtz wrote:
40% carbon 490 mast is ~$200 from Chinook so another mast is no problem.

Light Wind for me is anything under 10mph. I want to be able to plane in any and all wind conditions.

Back in the day; did they make any 14-16m sails?


Last edited by cgoudie1 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4324
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: A certain 9m sail Reply with quote

rtz wrote:
Anyone know of one out there that happens to use a 460 mast and possibly has a boom cutout? Or a sail around that size. Looking for a good deal on a new one.

Should a big sail for light Wind be cammed?


No 9.0 , or most sails 8.0 or larger ask for a 490.

A mast extension, goes in the bottom, inserted between the mast and mast extension will make a 460 into a 490. Theses are availabe in SDM OR RDM.

My experience with cams, is I don't need them, for any reason.

I would look no further than the Cheetah by EZZY.

_________________
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4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1177
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 9 m2 sail is definitely going to need a 490 mast. The biggest sail that you can rig on a 460 mast is around 7.5 m2.

Aerotech Freespeed is a nice no-cam 9.0 that rigs on a 490 and has a relatively short boom length with a recessed clew.

http://www.aerotechsails.com/freespeed.php#

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http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
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