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The big sails
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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 111
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: The big sails Reply with quote

I imagine there are windy locations where people donít sail anything bigger then a certain size. I imagine there are also light Wind places where the big stuff is common.

Iíve never sailed anything bigger then a 7.5m.

Iím fascinated by the 10-12m sails.

Do they require smooth coastal winds or can they handle gusty wind?

I know there are a lot of variables; but can you tell me the ranges of Wind you use the bigger sails in?

Like whatís the upper wind limit on a 12m sail? How fast can one go on a 12m sail?
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thombiz



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 664
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtz...If you ever get down to Corpus Christi, look me up and I'll give you a 10.2 that used to be in Phil McGain's quiver about 12 years back. Big guys or especially fit guys can hold it down all the way up to about 20 mph winds. Depends on the board, the fin, and the water. I used it in winds below 15. I'd rather see someone use it than leave it in the attic. I'm the sail repair guy down here. Ask someone at Worldwinds how to get ahold of me. I'm gettin' to old to want to work that hard.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Above 9.5-10m has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with angle.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2437

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did not say how much you weigh and your weight will play a big part in 10, 11 or 12 meter choice. You also didn't say what board you would be using the big sails with.

What is the wind limit of a 12 m sail? It depends on the size of your weight, fin, board, swells & balls.

Coachg
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big sail is ... well, big

for me it was big not on the water but on land. It is heavy. My launch is rocky and it was really difficult to carry it towards the water edge. And even more so back.

plus it is long (storage wise) and the boom is big too and takes room even more than sail.

And only dedicated carbon boom will do (not extended to the max, i.e if your boom say 220...260 it will not be a good idea; it has to be stiff and for that it has to be close to its minimum extension)

I had 10 rig and I sold it. I used it with Formula.
My current biggest sail is 8.5. I use it either with Formula or free race 145 liter Fanatic Ray.

This one I can carry more or less comfortably to the water.

On the water I probably lost about one knot planning threshold compared to 10.0; but the upper limit is probably about 5 knots higher.

This 8.5 had extended my TOW, or rather my planing time; of course one can shlog on 7.0 and the same 145 liters
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 855
Location: Montrťal

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your biggest sail used is a 7.5
you can continue to be fascinated, but forget buying one
need sail, mast, boom, board and fin
mauisails doesn't make larger than 11.0
and s2maui is 9.5
10-12 is now the Formula race sail category
there are some local Formula people, but think 10 or 11 was their max sail size

some locals have Ezzy Lion 9.5
i have a TR-4 10 m≤ sail that i use on a JP SLW92 and Mistral Equipe 2 XR
when winds are over 15 knots, the water state becomes rougher here
you need skills and wind to water start a race sail
for uphauling, the luff fills with water and impossible to do if you are tired

i am a fat mofo with no skills, but here is a video on my JP and TR-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrQ9ZnsapuM

agree with previous poster, alap, much more comfortable to go 8.5 on either of my light wind boards ...
can uphaul with little difficulty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDAJxD7rm9E

as you can see in both videos, hardly anyone around
and that is the most popular kiting and windsurf beach near Montreal

as you know, the trend now is foiling for light wind and NOT large sails
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 662

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailed a 9.2 + Formula and loved it. Even around 165lbs. It was for 8 to 15 knot days and we had plenty of those (sailing Colorado and Nebraska). Most sailed gear until I started to sail Wyoming more often (one of the windiest places on earth!).

It really increased my planing time and allowed me to work on jibes and such. Had no problem waterstarting (no cams), max speed for me was around 23-24 knots? The most wind in gusts I sailed in was 26mph.

Here are some photos from Lake McConaughy, Nebraska. Loved cruising across the entire lake and back, was close to "sailing" and I simply used a shorter fin on my board to make it more maneuverable as I wasn't interested in "angles."

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/manuelphoto/Planche/IMG_7097.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/manuelphoto/Planche/IMG_7134.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/manuelphoto/Planche/IMG_7084.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/manuelphoto/Planche/IMG_7097.jpg

_________________
Visit Manu's Windsurfing Blog - Photos, Videos, Tips and Tricks. (updated: Sept 2017)


Last edited by manuel on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you are racing, or live where the wind is commonly 10-15 and you want to plane, BIG sails don't add much (other than expense).

I raced for 30 yrs and had 10.0 on longboards and a 11.0 for formula. I weigh 170 and with the 11.0 on my formula board, the range is limited. Gusts over 15 are a handful, so I don't use the 11.0 anymore. However, I have a 9.2 Maui Sails TR race sail that is my go to for light wind planing (10-18 mph winds). Over 18 can be a handful as well, so heading up in the gusts is necessary.

I don't drop the big sails often, but I do have easy-up hauls on my 8.4 and larger sails. I also have a 10lb mushroom anchor with a float that I use with my big rigs. Drop the anchor and board, then go get my sail. It's too damn hard to carry the full rig to the water where I sail.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 877
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I raced Formula for about 5 years and spent a lot of time sailing the gear on inland lakes. If you sail in a predominantly light wind venue and want to plane consistently, then big gear is definitely the way to go. But you have to keep in mind that this equipment works as a system - you can not put a 12 meter sail on a mid-size free ride board and expect it to work. Big sails require big boards and big fins, so if you're looking at a sail in the 10 - 12 meter range, you should also be thinking big board (85 - 100 cm wide) and big fin (65 - 70 cm deep).

Success with this gear depends on both rider skill and tuning. Big guys can handle 11 meter sails when it's gusting to 20 mph, but it is for sure a handful and your strength and skill needs to be there. Proper downhaul setting and a carbon boom with an adjustable outhaul are more or less a requirement.

Realistically, a person of average size (say 5'10", 180 Lbs) free sailing probably doesn't have much need for a 12 meter sail unless the wind averages in the 5-10 mph range. An 11 meter sail would be good for winds in the 8-15 mph range and a 10 meter sail for about 10-18 mph.

These are just approximations, as I said, much has to do with how you tune the gear, your skill, the rest of your kit, etc. But one thing is for sure, if you want to get in a lot of planing time and improve your planing skills in a light wind venue, then big gear is the way to go.

sm
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An added note to my above post. I use a mechanical (u-joint) universal with my Formula rig. Easy to attach to the board while both board and sail are flat on the water. You don't have to stand the board on its side in the water, which is tough with a 100cm board.
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