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My experience with a Bic/Ker foil (big buy )
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9473

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just the other day I happened onto to a 15 minute raw footage video that Kevin Kan took of himself sailing solo at Ocean Beach in SF on a 3.8 with stout gusts of 50mph or more. He admitted that it was humbling, and the video showed just how tough and unsettling things were. Now, Kevin is without question an awesome sailor that always seems to be in perfect control, but there can be limits that test even the best of us.

Would things have been a lot easier if Kevin weighed 250lbs? I seriously doubt it.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4588
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

250? No
But 215 allows the same skill to work and accounts for around .7 meters, allowing more twist in the sail and more weigjt for the gusts..assuming the lulls weren't low.
I started sailing OBSF every day there was wind in fall '83. Done 7 mph on 12' board to gusts of 35 on 3.7.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
boardsurfr wrote:
coachg wrote:
1. Bigger people are less affected by chop.

How so? I actually doubt this is true. Perhaps if a bigger guys uses the same board as a smaller guy, the board will stick to the water better. But if board size matches weight, I don't see that chop would affect them differently. Also applies to the 3rd point.


You see it all the time. Even if two sailors, one big & the other light, have appropriate static flotation boards, the bigger sailor carries more weight that allows him to smash through chop. And as for point 3 I don't think I can explain it more simply. More weight needs more energy to get going & will carry momentum much longer. Cars, trucks, boats, planes, all are the same. I'm sorry that I can't help you understand that simple physic.

Coachg


What I see all the time is a 230 lb guy on a 90 l board and a 150 lb guy on an 80 l board. Yes, physics will say that the big guy will "smash through the chop" more than the little guy.

But if I see the 150 lb guy on a skinny 65 l board, like Ron C when he visits Kalmus, he smashes through the chop as well as any big guy.

The same thing applies to "carrying momentum". The big guy wil be exposed to higher braking forces, for example because he displaces more water when "smashing through" chop. That actually is quite different from cars.

Your view of physics is a rather simplistic one. Pretty funny that you doubt my understanding of physics. I happen to have an MS in Biophysical Chemistry, and a Ph.D. in a closely related field.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Gotta say, pure bs the above posts.
Any speed event, big boyz rule. Yes, one or two normal sized guys sneak into top half, but are exceptions.

No surprise that you are such a grumpy old man. You keep reiterating the same statement, without providing any facts, and keep re-iterating them when proven wrong.

Just check the actual speed rankings at https://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=rankings. Of the top-10 sailors, there are only 2 guys (Anders and Bjorn) that weight more than 225 lb, and they are both below 230. Eight of the top 10 guys are below 225, even if they are quite tall like Twan Verseput or Hans Kreisel. Several are below 200 lb. All those speeds were done in 40+ knots at Luderitz, which according to your statement should favor the "250 lb+ guys".

The same guys that show up in the top 10 win speed events on a regular basis.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4588
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are too blind to note that I mentioned practice as a big factor. Big guys don't get much practice.
160 lbs'ers can get tons of practice.
185 is a good balance for speed. I already mentioned rhat except blind people don't understand what they read.
A blind physics professor is still blind.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few excerpts from dllee "contributions" to this thread:
dllee wrote:
You are not normal sized

dllee wrote:
You cite examples, but have little understanding what it takes to be fast

dllee wrote:
YOU are slow

dllee wrote:
he has no idea what it takes to go fast day after day

dllee wrote:
..position of ignorance

dllee wrote:
..reading about and regurgitating

dllee wrote:
pure bs the above posts

dllee wrote:
YOU ARE BLIND

dllee wrote:
You are too blind to note

Almost makes me miss isobars when he was really active here. At least his posts sometimes were entertaining.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4588
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy
Mine don't entertain, they are just the facts.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have a simplistic view of physics, but as a high school math teacher I have a pretty good grasp of numbers. There are no 150 lb riders in the top 10 of the PWA in slalom. There would be if the races were in light wind locations or artificially flat water like they use for speed sailing, but PWA slalom races are usually in windier, choppier conditions. There is a limit to size because if you get too big you are at a major planing disability, but around 90-95 kg appears to be the range of the top riders. Their size allows them to use bigger sails & boards in windy, choppy conditions which give them a planing advantage. That "higher braking forces" on one end is an earlier planing advantage on the other. Those of us smaller sailors have a tough choice. If we go down to a smaller board so we don't bounce out of the chop we are at a planing disadvantage. If we use a board large enough to match up planing wise, we have a tough time in control & keeping the board down in jibes.

One other observation. I'm 170 lbs & when I use my skinny 70 liter board I don't smash through chop. I cut through the smaller chop & ride over the bigger chop because regardless of board size, I do not have the weight to smash through chop. Using a smaller board only allows me to stay in contact with the water better than a bigger board at the cost early planing.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4588
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes, when we're schooled too much in theory science, we forget that what happens in the real world is slightly different than what happens in our theoritical perfect box.
This seems to happen quite a bit, and it can affect doctors, lawyers, chemists, physics professors and even mathmeticians, and those who study ANYTHING too much without seeing enough of the outside world.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5065
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Sometimes, when we're schooled too much in theory science, we forget that what happens in the real world is slightly different than what happens in our theoritical perfect box.
This seems to happen quite a bit, and it can affect doctors, lawyers, chemists, physics professors and even mathmeticians, and those who study ANYTHING too much without seeing enough of the outside world.


Canít disagree with a word of this.
Not much on topic however.

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