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Windsurf Foiling
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mikecole



Joined: 21 Sep 2000
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some photos of an adapter I made for an MHL foil. Deep tuttle adapter and plate are made from 6061-T6. The MHL foil is designed for kite power. I can make it work on my starboard isonic 133 but it's tricky... I start with a foot in the front strap, bear off and pump onto the foil. Then back foot in the strap. Then I have to keep the mast aligned vertically with the foil strut or the board will roll, usually to leeward which is scary. The kite wings do not seem to offer enough roll stability. I'm working on some flat wings with the hope of adding roll stability to the system.

Mike



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ShreddinEd



Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll probably try foiling at some point just to check it out, but not sure it's for me long-term. Isn't it just some racer or slalom setup? I don't think you can ride waves or jump with those things, can you? If not, I'm not sure I get too much of a thrill from going back and forth in a straight line. Just my $.02.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of video of foil guys front and backlooping, even in dead flat water.
Plenty of video of foil guys "riding" waves, although it's really the swell they are pushing off when they're foiling, not the face....which changes as the wave rolls towards shore.
The idea of foil is to open up windsurfing in lighter winds, and allow more upwind and downwind angles.
Foils are not inherently faster than fast freeride, so it's slower than pro slalom....except when Antoine Albeau goes against lesser pros on slalom gear while he's riding specialty speed foil gear.
Foils are staying with, and beating some of the top Formula guys, especially downwind.
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ShreddinEd



Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I saw the Kai Lenny video of him riding a foil surfboard across some channel in Hawaii, but I don't think you can ride the face of a wave with these things given their huge draft. That said, it's all good, it's probably just not for me. Anything that gets folks into the sport is OK by me.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess you missed all those Laird videos of him foil riding on a overhead sized wave.
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s3



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful machine work but there is another way to go about this... BTW the board also has multiple FS inserts and is for sale - search windfoil in classifieds.


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mikecole



Joined: 21 Sep 2000
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work s3. I think your solution is superior in that you have a greater adjustment range to dial in the center of lift. Did you use mast tracks? I did a similar project to a jimmy Lewis board. I added two chinook a-base boxes for mounting the MHL foil using standard chinook t-nuts. I use that board for travel since it can surf. kite or foil. How do you find your board windsurfs with a fin? Do you even notice the foil tracks? Thanks for sharing!

Mike



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s3



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike - nice job on the dual finbox setup on your Lewis board. Makes total sense for travel and versatility. I plug the tracks and extra Tuttle boxes when not in use as when the board touches down the increased drag is noticeable. I can't take credit for the install, it's Mike Z's work with mast tracks and extra Tuttle box. I wanted a board to learn to foil on. In the beginning I didn't have my own foil and had to borrow whatever foils I could get my hands on, mostly kitefoils. So I needed the range of adjustment and method of attachment to experiment with. I've never used the board for windsurfing but I'm sure it's not much. I chose it for it's availability and durability. I figured that if as long as it could support my weight and plane up reasonably, once it was in the air it didn't really make any difference. And for the most part, that's true. Foil, foot and mast placement are the keys to balancing out a windfoil.

Steve
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mikecole



Joined: 21 Sep 2000
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, I wonder if you could give me some advise as to how to keep the board from rolling to leeward. Is it all about mast angle with regard to windward leeward angle? I'm really struggling to foil for more than 10 or 15 seconds. I too am using a kite foil (MHL). Some of the local kite foiling crew have suggested it will never work but from a physics standpoint there is no reason it should not work... Most of the kite foil wings are anhedral which are unstable in roll so I am making some flat wings for the MHL strut/fuselage. I'm also looking to improve my technique so any advice you have would be really valuable.

Thanks! Mike
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s3



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, a meaningful answer to your question (if I have one) may be somewhat involved. There could be a number of reasons the board wants to roll to leeward once up on the foil. It looks like your board is maybe 60 cm wide? Wider boards are easier to foil with as you have more leverage to counteract any rolling moment (not unlike issues created by long fins in narrow boards). Also, the foil being too far forward in relation to FS and universal positions or too big a sail are other things that come immediately to mind. With foiling seemingly minor adjustments make big differences in tuning. Just for comparison, my rear foot is about 3 or so inches aft of the center of lift of the front wing. And my universal is 41" from the front fin screw (Tuttle box) for sails 5.6m and smaller and I move it back from there for larger sails (mostly to counteract the extra weight). But I'd think that even a 6.3 might be difficult to manage on a board as narrow as yours because of the roll moment it can create and your inability to easily counteract it.

As far as anhedral goes, I was also skeptical about its roll stability. Though roll control hasn't been a problem for me, I foil with wider boards and a 60 cm board may accentuate any inherent roll instability. Flat wings or wings with dihedral theoretically should be more roll stable but I think the tip washout built into most of the anhedral wings I've seen may go a long way to enhance roll stability. And during a breach it's more stable to have the wing root be first to break the water and lose lift. Just FYI, Alex Morales (Tillo International) builds essentially flat wing foils with a small amount of dihedral and thinks they are more stable. I'd be very curious to know how the flat wings you're building work with your setup. What fun!

Steve
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