front loop or back loop

[trance_dude]

Hello all, I've decided the time has come... for me to start learning loops.

Can I ask those of you who know how to both front and back loop, which you might suggest learning first.

The front loop appears to be usually learned first, however there are a few things which are making me reconsider. First, between my local sailing spot and some travel I hope to do this year, I will have plenty of access to ocean sailing and waves. The back loop seems particularly suited to wave sailing as some extremely steep ramps are provided.

Also, it seems to me the rotation on front loops can be somewhat more strong/fast than for back. Obviously either move entails risk but I'm not really wanting to hurt myself, of course. Then again if you underrotate on a front loop you mostly at least end up in the water, and not on top of your equipment, right? Not sure if anyone has a view on which trick is considered more dangerous.

Thanks for any input!

[rigitrite]

I learned backies first, but you either need:
A. Waves, like....really waves 5- 6 ft or more and windy conditions.
B. Crazy windy conditions on a lake with enough fetch to generate 4-6 ft swells. You need to really get up there to land a backie.

Forwards are way way easier and you can learn them off of a 1 ft piece of chop. Also, you can timer a forward, so that by the time you throw your first one, you're pretty sure you can land it. I recommend you take a clinic with Wyatt Miller: he can have you doing forwards in 1 day.

Backie, you just have to go for it, there is no build up. I you don't have air-sense, like a diver or gymnast, then the first time you go upside down, you're gonna get "lost" and you'll eat it.

[jingebritsen]

also depends on if you drive off the rail or fin.

i sail really lit up with a seat harness. tend load the fin a lot. also i tend to lean way out over the water. back loops have happened involuntarily.

there are other sailors that use waist harnesses and sail more upright, driving of the rail more. they seem to be able to front loop easier.

i don't seek either loop.

[ss59]

Most people find forwards easier - back loops are more conditions dependant so it depends on the conditions on the day.

This is quite a useful way to build up to forwards gently.

https://youtu.be/Bg7c2s8YmMM

[ss59]

[manuel]

Disclaimer: I am at the loop trial stage, never landed either.

I have the forward in mind since 2012... mostly because I thought it could be learned on a lake and that it was "easy". Pulling the trigger has been quite difficult for me.

However, ideal conditions for forwards are almost side to side-off small clean waves and medium winds (i.e. Brazil). I have tried 5 to 10 fronts. It's not a natural move at all, quite the opposite. The cheese roll is a more natural move and I believe might have been done before the forward in the history of windsurfing.

I too believe that the back loop happens naturally especially in side-on conditions. When planing we head upwind of a peak and as we hit the lip late, we get slightly backwards momentum which throws us into a back loop. I have tried about 100 back loops.

It's much easier to sail away out of a front loop after only a few attempts. Back loops are really difficult to land (nose-dive with lots of power in the sail) and land with consistency. The difficult lies in wave reading, rotational speed, landing angle and power control.

[trance_dude]

Thanks for input guys. @rigitrite, which hurts more, missing a front or back loop? On one hand the rotation seems faster on a front, on the other, it seems like the landing for a back is basically a nose dive (as @manuel mentions) and it seems to me you could really mess up your ankles in missing a back loop landing.

Leaning towards learning the front. thx for video @ss59

[isobars]

As you can see, some prefer backs first, others prefer fronts first. It's true of both ocean waves and the Gorge.

As for pain or injury ... anyone afraid of either will be hesitant, which discourages success and thus encourages ... guess what ... pain and injury. Suck it up, armor your head and torso, accept the risks, and go for it.

That, or realize that such stunts are optional .. a personal choice ... not a mandatory rite of passage or that "it's time". They have never interested OR tempted me despite my decades of sailing and jumping in very strong winds and big swell in both fresh and salt water.

[rigitrite]

[trance_dude]

Well, my personal choice is to pursue them, because I want to.

I am accepting of risk of injury but that doesn't mean I cannot manage it by getting good advice from people who have been through the learning process, by learning about which tricks are more dangerous than others, and yes by wearing protective gear as you say.