Quiver planning

[montignp]

All,

2017 will be my first season really committing to the sport, after spending 2016 learning the basics (of both technique and gear). I have been relying on as much free/hand-me-down gear as possible, so there is some undesirable inconsistency and overlap in my current setup:

160L Bic Nova (used 90% of the time)
200+L original Mistral Superlight

7.3 (Naish, would have to pull it out to confirm model)
6.6 Sailworks Hucker
6.0 Gaastra Remedy (on loan to me)
4.7 Gaastra Poison (falling apart, could use replacement)
4.2 Sailworks Revo

I am ~195 lbs, still consider myself a beginner, sailing mostly flat/choppy bay water, usually 15 - 25 knots. My sailing buddy will only go out when it is blowing 20+, so the 4.7 has seen the most use thus far, but I suspect the 6.0 will get more use this year.

I am trying to round out this quiver. The 6.0 is on loan to me and the 4.7 does not have much life left in it. So I am realistically trying to fill the gap between the 4.2 Revo and the 6.6 Hucker (which I am told sails more like a typical 7.0 freeride sail). My first thought is one in the 4.7-4.8 range, and one in the 5.6 range. I am starting to lurk on craigslist now in hopes of grabbing some before the start of the season.

Thoughts? If nothing pops up on craigslist, my plan is to squeeze another year out of the 4.7 and either buy the 6.0 from my friend or grab a 5.5 Sailworks Retro on 'clearance' from Sailworks (still $500+).

Also, can someone explain to me why smaller boards are "better" in adequate planing conditions? I like my 160L just fine for now, but I'm wondering what comes next, and why.

Thanks!

[jingebritsen]

guessing you are not sailing in surf. do you have any surf close by? aspire to do so?

simplest thing to do is stay in full or half meter numbers. EXCEPT where one is most apt to break stuff.

example my wave stuff

phantoms 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and 5.8 charge, phantoms 6.2, 6.8, and 7.5 i nearly duplicate in sizes where i tend to sail most. if i break something, that does not ruin my day. just rig the next size up or down....

flat water stuff, for light wind or blasting

freespeeds 7.2 and 9.0 these sails are most like retro: DO NOT take in surf. they have tube battens that break in the surf action if dropped in the impact zone.

big jumps in between specialist sails and the surf stuff allows me to dial in the specific days' demands. phantom sails' performance allow me to use anywhere without a whole lot of worry over special app's. they have a very wide range of use.

i rarely use 4.0, 4.5 and 5.0. wish i could do more of that.

[swchandler]

"Also, can someone explain to me why smaller boards are "better" in adequate planing conditions? I like my 160L just fine for now, but I'm wondering what comes next, and why."


The key to smaller boards revolves around being able to waterstart. A high volume board isn't really necessary after one learns how to dependably waterstart. Also, if you are comfortable planing and getting into the footstraps, you don't need the extra volume, unless the wind falls below the planing threshold. Yet, even then, you still have the ability to slog to and from the windline with a lower volume board.

If I was to recommend a smaller board at this stage, I would think about one in the 100-120 liter range depending on the average wind that you can expect to see. If you're still more on the beginner side of the equation, a 120 liter will probably be more suitable.

As far as updating your quiver, it's hard to do better than Sailworks sails, especially if you have the opportunity to pick up a new one from the last year or two. However, it is very important, no matter which sail brand you ultimately choose, to buy the recommended mast(s) with the correct bend curve. To save some money you can always go with a lower carbon content.

[bred2shred]

The steps between sails sizes are generally not linear. I.e., you do not want to make a blanket statement of something like "just put a 1/2 meter gap between your sail sizes."

A better way to look at it (and what we always recommended) is to make the sail size changes on a percentage basis. A good rule of thumb is a 15% drop in size from one sail to the next. If you're on a budget, you can bump this up to a 20% jump (particularly for sails above 7.0), and if you like to have more of a selection of sail sizes, you can reduce to around a 10% jump. The numbers are just guidelines and a tenth of a meter or so either direction is not the end of the world. It's always good to plan your quiver (sails, masts, and booms) before you buy, even if you don't expect to buy it all at the same time.

So using your 6.6 as a starting point,

The increments for a 15% jump would be:
7.8, 6.6, 5.6. 4.8, 4.1

Or for a 20% jump:
8.3, 6.6, 5.3, 4.2

sm

[cgoudie1]

Greetings Mr gnp,

If you can only afford 1 sail, a 5.5 Retro between the Hucker and the Revo
would be the appropriate combination, but......... what you really want is
more time on the water, and while it's really nice to have a sailing companion, I bet your typical wind is not 4.2 (unless you are sailing in
the Gorge). If you describe your current sailing venue (typical wind and
water conditions) we could make better recommendations. I would opt for
your next sail to be of a size appropriate to your most typical wind. I'd
do my best to stay in the Sailworks make if possible.


Small boards are immensely easier to sail in higher winds (once you have
the experience to sail them). You must have experienced your 160 ltr
board bucking and flying away in 4.2 winds. That is because it is designed
to be sailed in 7.5 and lighter winds. Small boards are also a just more fun
because of the maneuverability (but only in high winds). Large boards are
way more fun in light winds, so keep your 160. Your next step down at
190 is probably a 120 ltr board, and that will become your light wind 7.5
and up board and you'll retire the 160 for everything but 12MPH winds.
...........Unless....... your wind is consistently averaging above 20MPH.

More answers are coming I suspect.

-Craig

[techno900]

Key issues - Typical wind & water conditions - if it's high winds and choppy/wavy conditions, then that would impact your decisions.

If mostly light winds, then that will impact your choices.

If a combination of both (generally, what most of us encounter), then the following would be recommended at your skill level and weight. This is what one would do if starting from scratch.

Boards - enough volume and size to uphaul without too much of a problem - 160+ liters. As skills improve, you will want more performance which means a smaller board, likely one that you still can uphaul, but will take practice and balance - 130L (where you would learn to water start). Eventually if skills improve (water starting is proficient), and you have enough wind, then something around 100-110L.

Sails - You already have sails, but again, if starting from scratch you would learn on something small - 5.0m, then as skills improve, you would want more power and might go to a 6.0 or a 6.5. Next depending on your wind, you would likely go bigger to a 7.0 or 7.5. From there it's hard to predict.

Generally, small sails 4.0 - 6.0, a .5 to .8 meter gap is nice. Larger sails 6.0 to 8.0 a 1.0m gap is good. Larger above 8.0 a 1.0 to 1.5m gap would work.

Hopefully this will help guide you.

[montignp]

Thanks all. I think you have more or less validated my thoughts on this, as far as spacing of sails goes.

I am in RI, I have done the bulk of my sailing in protected ocean/bay water (Conimicut, protected side of Napatree, Ninigret, cove side of Fogland, etc). It can get choppy, but I would not describe anything I have done as wave sailing, and I don't have any immediate plans to get into wave sailing, although I suppose this is a medium term possibility being on the ocean.

I did most of my sailing last year in the fall, so my impression of typical wind is skewed towards the higher end, but I would say typical is about 15 mph, with "good" days occurring regularly in the 20-25 mph range. 30+ is unusual, only during storms and such. Below 15mph I will go find other things to do.

[acalhounguy]

Kind of sounds to me like you could have fun with a bigger sail - at 195lbs and with a 160L board you should try an 8.5-9.-0L (Retro or Cheetah or similar) and see how that works for you.

Are you planing in the straps with the sail / board combinations you are using?

I would love to have a Revo 4.2 but in my conditions it would only get used in a storm so it wouldn't get used much - are you using it sub-planing on the longboard because that makes some sense.

With a good 4.2 and 6.6, 7.3 for non-surf (i.e. blasting, bump/jump) I would add a 5.3 to 5.5 (retro would be good) and like a 9.0. My next board down would be a 120L as others have suggested- probably a free-wide type. My gecko 120 is slightly big for my needs at 180 lbs (should have bought a 110) but might be perfect at your weight. I would not rush to buy a smaller board until you are comfortably blasting in the straps on your 160L which you may be already doing.

[outcast]

Please don't get too much quiver fixation...

I know that the concept of having all the right stuff has ruined the fun for too many.

Keep what you've got....Practice rigging all of that on the grass as soon as the weather breaks

Mark the extensions with sharpies or whatever, keep the lines fresh, and leave 80% of it at home

[swchandler]

"...and leave 80% of it at home"


That would be a mistake. Always come to the beach prepared, because you never know when the conditions will change.