wave sailing in onshore wind

merriam · Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 95

You're right, I was trying to quote Isobars. Operator error.
Thanks for the correction.
Tom

cgoudie1 · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: On-Shore?

I'm not really much of a definitions kinda guy. I just like to sail. If it's
definition by consensus, the definition of Gorge launches is
Side-shore (almost always). It's pretty heavy Side-on at the beach at the
Boat Ramp on an Easterly though. I've sailed straight up and down
the river on a few occasions generated by T-heads, which would be
On-shore at the beach, but that is rare.

Once you get on the water (away from the beach), the sailing conditions
do tend to be pretty similar to On-shore conditions like Mike says.

Since the beach wind is usually pretty Side-shore on the Columbia, you get
easy access to the wind and water situations which mimic "On-shore"
conditions elsewhere. This thread started as a question about the
difficulty of getting outside in On-shore conditions, that's
not typically an issue on the Columbia (unless you launch into some
Barge beach break which shall heretofore be called Barge-Shore ;*))

Anyway, just another reason to love the Gorge, all the convenience of
Side-shore launch, and all the joy of water conditions which mimic
On-shore conditions elsewhere.

.01

-Craig

PeconicPuffin · Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 1830

cgoudie1 · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: On-Shore?

Not trying to take anything away from Wave sailing. I am a marginal wave
sailor, and I only get about 7 days a year on the Ocean. On the days when
I've sailed wind swell at Kanaha, it felt similar to big days on the river. The
power of wind swell on the ocean is substantially stronger than a river swell,
but to me it feels similar, and the wind and swell do run a similar direction.

As I said in the previous post, the OP was interested in getting out in On-Shore wind. Nothing equivalent to that on the Columbia.

-Craig

swchandler · Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588

"Once you get on the water (away from the beach), the sailing conditions
do tend to be pretty similar to On-shore conditions like Mike says."

Craig, let's recognize the obvious. Sailing in any wind direction, once you get away from the beach, could be viewed as sailing in "onshore" conditions. That even includes offshore winds. Wind forms chop and windswell, and we basically sail perpendicular to the wind's direction. While sailing, the wind is always to our back, regardless of its direction.

When we practically identify the wind direction, it is usually characterized based on its relationship to the launch. It's essentially sideshore, onshore or offshore. However, we can find that it can be something in between, like "side-off" or "side-on" conditions.

One thing that I've recognized over the years is that the wind will clock and effectively change direction as the day matures. Taking a typical Gorge spot like Swell City or the Hatchery on a summer day, the wind tends to be SW very early in the day, and it will clock around to be more WNW at the end of the day. It's basically the same sailing on the California Coast, or even at the Delta east of SF.

trance_dude · Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 40

For what it's worth.. as the OP... IMHO: the "alternative" definition of sideshore wind was not really helpful here (although the discussion was certainly entertaining).

In addition to being very out of the ordinary and non-intuitive, it also fails to capture what I think is most important about wind direction. Windsurfers and kiters care about where the wind is coming from because:

- Safety: offshore wind is dangerous bc it can push you out to sea. Onshore wind can also be dangerous for kiters bc it can lift them onto land.

- Relation to waves: in the ocean we want to know the angle at which we will be approaching breaking surf. As mentioned the angle has a big effect on your ability to get out (read: not get creamed) and also what kind of waveriding you're doing on the way in.

With respect to relation to SWELL: yes, the "alternative" definition helps with that I guess, and one's relation to swell is certainly relevant to one's sailing. However, as @swchandler says, swell is most often going in the direction of the wind anyway. I can think of cases when it is not, like a big bay (say, Corpus Christi bay) where there is usually at least some swell heading towards shore regardless, kind of like waves, but without breaking. And the shape of a river or lake can twist or reflect swell. But for the most part swell comes from upwind. I do not see the point in calling that situation "onshore".

Swell is just not the same as waves. Waves break, and can break you and/or equipment. Not taking anything away from awesome Gorge sailors whatsoever or saying I am Mr. great windsurfer or anything. I'm just saying you cannot compare the two. It's more important to define onshore in terms of safety and waves than swell. In my opinion.

Not to open another can of worms... but... A concept which I think is more "malleable" on lakes/rivers is the concept of port vs. starboard tack. On a coast that is crystal clear. On a lake or river it is less clear, and in a perfectly symmetrical situation it could be completely ambiguous depending on which shore you are standing on. But, there are definitely days I've sailed on lakes/rivers where I've come back and said, that felt like port tack. In other words the conditions were better "set up" for port tack sailing / jumping etc. - even though the launch may have been on starboard tack.

Anyway thanks for all the responses they have been very helpful.

jingebritsen · Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371

sometimes, even in humble florida, we will get a swell coming from the NE or N, and a side shore S to SE wind. opposing wind and swell makes magic happen. wave power, gravity, and wind power combine.. makes for some seriously lit up wave rides.

more often, wind and waves are more in line....

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

bred2shred · Joined: 02 May 2000 Posts: 989 Location: Jersey Shore

For onshore conditions, in many cases, having the right gear can determine whether you look like a hero or a zero. A bigger board, sail, and fin are all beneficial towards punching out through the surf. As others have said, wind coming at you combined with adverse current severely reduces your apparent wind speed. You are essentially trying to sail upwind on a conveyor that at is pulling you downwind while being knocked by waves.

These are conditions where having a wind SUP can be really beneficial. I've sailed in strong onshore conditions using my SUP when it easily would have been 100L short board weather if it were side shore. You need a board that will stay afloat when you come off plane (and you will) and which gives you the best opportunity for staying upwind.

Otherwise, persistence is the name of the game. Having solid waterstart skills and popping back up as quickly as possible after a knock down helps immensely. On the flip side, knowing when to bail is also crucial. If you get turned around sometimes it can be a lot more productive to shoot back into the beach, regroup, and start over rather than continuing to try to get out when it just isn't happening. In these conditions, no one gets out the first time every time.

sm