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loghomebuilder
Joined: 16 Nov 2016
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks all for the tips. Next season I'll try to remember to post how my repair is holding up. I think my repair method is not the best way to repair it, but on the plus side, it took minimal effort (10 min, not counting the hardening time) Ben |
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windydoug
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Western NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I read this with interest. Follow the link below to see how (description and pics) I used Gorilla Glue White, some glass, Marine Tex and NSI deck pad to repair soft deck just forward of of the back straps on my 2004 Mistral Screamer.
As you'll read, I did some unscientific experimenting with the glue and when and how much to expose it to water. I was initially leery of too much expansion of the glue and popping more deck. That didn't happen for me. Also had some good local knowledge input.
So far so good on the repair.
http://www.rochesterwindsports.com/discussion-forum/topic/windsurfer-heel-depression-repair/ |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| windydoug wrote: | I read this with interest. Follow the link below to see how (description and pics) I used Gorilla Glue White, some glass, Marine Tex and NSI deck pad to repair soft deck just forward of of the back straps on my 2004 Mistral Screamer.
As you'll read, I did some unscientific experimenting with the glue and when and how much to expose it to water. I was initially leery of too much expansion of the glue and popping more deck. That didn't happen for me. Also had some good local knowledge input.
So far so good on the repair.
http://www.rochesterwindsports.com/discussion-forum/topic/windsurfer-heel-depression-repair/ |
I read with interest your link.
The repair may hold up for some time , or not. It is a economical way to proceed, the addition of the deck pad should distribute the load in that area, a significant amount?
My concern would be the damage to the inside core from water that is crumbling away with the glue on top.
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windydoug
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Western NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: |
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While I did not take the time to drill the holes and test for moisture in the board (using a simple plastic bag over the holes on a sunny day), I am hopeful that it was dry. As best I could tell, I did not have any spots with defined cracks (to the naked eye) where the water would have obviously leaked through. The sawdust that came out from the wood laminate at drilling was dry.
I'm hopeful.
Part of my motivation in doing an extensive report (at the previous link) with many pics was that not much existed when I researched the topic.
I found that the surf shaper "Stretch" had used it years ago for this purpose, and I also found a few folks had used it on SUP boards...but not in a similar manner to what I did.
It seems to be working for the time being in my application.
Doug |
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bred2shred
Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| windydoug wrote: | | I used Gorilla Glue White, some glass, Marine Tex and NSI deck pad to repair soft deck just forward of of the back straps on my 2004 Mistral Screamer. |
Not sure what the intention was laminating a ply of glass over the drill holes, but it looks like you did not sand/prep the deck nearly enough before bonding the glass. The "screamer" decal was still visible when you laminated the glass. For proper adhesion and to have any structural effect, you want any new plys to be laminated directly onto the existing glass. This means removing all of the existing paint/graphics.
Also not too sure about using Marine Tex to saturate fiberglass cloth. M-Tex is a super thick putty. To properly saturate glass, you really want to use a laminating resin.
Whenever you're doing any type of injection, the best/cleanest method is to cover the entire injection site with masking tape. Then drill your injection holes through the tape and into the board. After you've injected and before the epoxy/adhesive fully cures, remove the tape and use a little acetone to remove excess from around the holes as needed.
I agree with U2. If you have a soft spot of any significant size, most likely the EPS core has deteriorated. If you just inject, you don't really know what's going on - it's just a shot in the dark. It may hold up or it may just continue to break down. Replacing the core is a more long term solution.
sm |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Hey Logger ... have you considered the other approach: buy a replacement Supercross? When I find a board that really shines, I scour the used board sources for backups before mine fails. That allows me to simply discard boards that need significant repairs, which saves money, averts lost shred time, and lets me play hard without having to pussyfoot around a board's "issues". So far I've found from zero to 18 solid backups for each of my favorites, at prices from $10 to $300. |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| windydoug wrote: | While I did not take the time to drill the holes and test for moisture in the board (using a simple plastic bag over the holes on a sunny day), I am hopeful that it was dry. As best I could tell, I did not have any spots with defined cracks (to the naked eye) where the water would have obviously leaked through. The sawdust that came out from the wood laminate at drilling was dry.
I'm hopeful.
Part of my motivation in doing an extensive report (at the previous link) with many pics was that not much existed when I researched the topic.
I found that the surf shaper "Stretch" had used it years ago for this purpose, and I also found a few folks had used it on SUP boards...but not in a similar manner to what I did.
It seems to be working for the time being in my application.
Doug |
The approach you have taken was done from a monetary POV, you said that, economy.
If you had all the proper materials on hand the overall cost is minimal.
Something caused the deck to become mushy, may be no water.
I hope you get a few seasons more from it.
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4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | Hey Logger ... have you considered the other approach: buy a replacement Supercross? When I find a board that really shines, I scour the used board sources for backups before mine fails. That allows me to simply discard boards that need significant repairs, which saves money, averts lost shred time, and lets me play hard without having to pussyfoot around a board's "issues". So far I've found from zero to 18 solid backups for each of my favorites, at prices from $10 to $300. |
My tire is low on my Mercedes , think I will stockpile a few tires,
Good advise
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K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
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windydoug
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Western NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Answering Bred2Shreds response here:
| Quote: | | Not sure what the intention was laminating a ply of glass over the drill holes, but it looks like you did not sand/prep the deck nearly enough before bonding the glass. The "screamer" decal was still visible when you laminated the glass. For proper adhesion and to have any structural effect, you want any new plys to be laminated directly onto the existing glass. This means removing all of the existing paint/graphics. |
My intention in bonding the glass over the holes was to try to recoup some of the strength lost when I drilled a bunch of holes in the deck right near each other. Maybe unnecessary, but a little piece of mind. I disagree with you that to have ANY structural effect that the glass must be bonded directly to the existing glass. I'll agree that it would without a doubt be its strongest with a glass to glass bond though.
Additionally, if my fill repair does indeed fail, I'm hopeful that the Marine Tex reinforced glass cloth over the top of it will defray impact/pressure from the affected area and buy me even more time.
| Quote: | | Also not too sure about using Marine Tex to saturate fiberglass cloth. M-Tex is a super thick putty. To properly saturate glass, you really want to use a laminating resin. |
A quick visit to the Marine Tex website yields this:
Marine-Tex paste provides waterproof repairs that can be used with Fiberglass tape or cloth to bridge holes and reinforce structural repairs as needed.
It required more pressure than Epoxy to get into the cloth, but nothing significant really.
I did not mask the area I was working on because I was not worried about it being clean. The cured/dried Gorilla Glue was fairly easy to remove carefully with a sharp razor blade and sanding. I cleaned the entire area with Acetone following sanding and before Marine Tex glassing.
I did Eva's crunch test found at this link and found my board to be in the first stage of "soft deck disease" as best I could tell. Spongy, but no crunching sounds. Her recommendation at this stage is to inject Urethane foam and then add carbon to the deck to reduce further flexing.
http://boardlady.com/softdeckanalysis.htm
Following this link and going to the bottom three photo's will show a similar concept as to what I did. She actually says that the foam (while not Gorilla Glue that I used) did a pretty decent job filling voids and had similar flexing characteristics to the EPS foam. I did not remove the deck however.
http://boardlady.com/injection.htm
The repair I did was similar to this one, just done a much more budget friendly way on my 12 year old board. I did not have a vacuum bagger, and carbon fiber, and my sanding was not as good as Eva's professional job (and I did not remove the top layer of glass) but I'm happy with it.
http://boardlady.com/5022.htm
My research prior to the repair turned up a tidbit somewhere that Stretch Riedel used Gorilla Glue (by name) to fix heal dents on boards back in the day.
http://stretchboards.com/about/
Anyhow, as stated my intent was to add to the dialog related to this type of repair as much documentation did not exist on it. Bred2Shred has offered some tips that would improve the viability of this type of repair had I done them. I'm hopeful the research and practicing I did will prove successful.
Hopefully if you are reading this and you are intending to give it a shot, this dialog will help you decide what to do.
Out of pocket cost was under $25. I may get what I pay for, I may get much more.
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bred2shred
Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| windydoug wrote: |
Anyhow, as stated my intent was to add to the dialog related to this type of repair as much documentation did not exist on it. Bred2Shred has offered some tips that would improve the viability of this type of repair had I done them. I'm hopeful the research and practicing I did will prove successful.
Hopefully if you are reading this and you are intending to give it a shot, this dialog will help you decide what to do.
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Which was more or less the intent of my post. Someone looking at this thread should be aware that there are some "best practices" when it comes to doing composite repairs. Such things as removing all of the existing decals/paint and wetting out the glass with a laminating resin are generally going to yield the highest strength/longest lasting results. As you said, the repair may last, it may not. If I'm going through the effort of doing a repair (no matter how minor), I like to work towards having the highest probability of success.
sm |
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