12M sail observations

[acalhounguy]

Had a chance to sail my 12.0M Avanti Machine with my SB Ultrasonic and a big Makani weed/slalom fin. It was fun to compare directly to my Ezzy 9.5 used earlier in the day. I love the Ezzy and had a great time on it but was off the plane too much.

Rigged the 12.0 and for the first time (in probably 8 tries) it took me less than 20 minutes. On the lake it was planing ridiculously early and the wind had to drop to almost nothing once on the plane to fall off. There is so much lift in a breeze that the board can plane at a really slow speed before it falls off - I found it comical to be working to balance on a plane at walking speed waiting for the next gust. The sail was super stable and controllable in gusts. It is very deep and has a TON of twist - is that usual for a race sail? It was a pretty good workout muscling the sail around which was fine, I needed one, and it beat sitting in a lawn chair.

This sail still rotates poorly but it is better - I have had to grind down the cams where they meet the batten - essentially shortening them - I'm probably 8mm down from where I started and I need to take away a bit more to get it right.

I was disappointed with this sail initially but I had a good session with it today, would be even better with a bigger fin. The easier rigging today (practice) makes it more likely that I'll make the investment of time to do so in similar conditions in the future (sail not for sale )

Happy 4th all!

[gvogelsang]

I wonder if you could have achieved the same effect by rigging a 10.0 m with less twist? It would seem that by having so much twist in your 12, you are using a good deal less of the sail than you could be using to get planing.

What would happen if you rigged your 9.5 with minimum downhaul and outhaul?

[acalhounguy]

Have done that with the 9.5 - it works well but is slower once planing. The twist is inherent in the design - it seems excessive to me but I am following the specs and using the matching mast. The sail area not twisted off is still really big

[DelCarpenter]

Following the specs & using the matching mast & shaved up to 8mm off & still having rotation problems? How likely is it that the cambers have the wrong size opening for the specified mast?

I think rotation problems are more likely to come from too much batten tension, not enough mast curve due to inadequate downhaul, or cambers at the wrong mast level from the wrong extension length.

I remember breaking a camber on a sail because I didn't have enough downhaul tension.

[coachg]

Because the coefficient for drag is so small & the larger sails so tall, you have a much greater difference in apparent wind between the foot & head of the sail when planing in light winds. In 10 mph winds the apparent wind you feel traveling at 18 mph is far different than the apparent wind at the tip of your 17 foot tall sail. The wind at 17 feet is greater than on the surface so even though you are traveling at 18 mph the tip of your sail is seeing less apparent wind. Rigging a tighter leach 9.5 will not have the same effect. Less twist would be great for a long board but the kiss of death for an Ultrasonic or formula board.

I agree with Del. It sounds like you need more down haul. The large sails look ugly on the beach, but once planing fill in nicely. Less twist will make the sail look better on the beach but slower due to increased drag & hard to rotate.

Coachg

[jingebritsen]

exactly coach. you nailed it.

hard to rotate is part of the whole pkg with double luff sails. don't grind away any more of the cams. check to see if there are spacers already installed. they look like water hose o-rings. they hold the cams a bit further away from the luff panel, therefore a bit tighter onto the mast.

[joethewindsufa]

agree with all said +

1) downhaul FULLY - or yes, you can/will break battens
2) please don't grind cambers
3) use adjustable outhaul
4) try SailKote or other dry lubricant

when winds are good - cambers will flip
if not enough, pop the one near the boom by hand and others will follow

12 m² = WOW - BIG sail
at my HEAVY weight, it would still take about 12 knots for passive planing
AND i have enough trouble uphauling double luff 8.4 and 10.0
will stay on my longboard with 8.x sails ...in that wind

nb any videos ??

[Awalkspoiled]

I really want one of these but the unbelievable downhaul tensions, coupled with the frequency of explosive mast failures, coupled with the initial expense has me limited to a 3-cam 10.0 double-luff Mauisails. One mast blowout would destroy my sailing budget for the year. The 10.0 is much flatter than big formula sails down low, and significantly less powerful, but if using a crank isn’t all that hard to rig.

It does sound like the downhaul may not yet be all the way on your Avanti, even though you see so much twist. One thing no one’s mentioned yet which could help rotation is applying Sailkote to the mast before rigging.

[joethewindsufa]

i suggested SailKote while you were typing Awalkspoiled

I actually spray it on my hand and then rub it inside the camber
do NOT want any on the mast dripping down or near the boom area

[acalhounguy]

Sailkote and the grinding were both recommended to me by the sail designer via email to correct the problem. I would not have ground them if he hadn't recommended it - the grinding has helped without upsetting the shape of the sail. Again, I'm using the manufacturers mast and the exact specs for downhaul but I could try a little more. Before ordering a pin and collar for my mast base I broke 2 plastic collars last season as well as a couple downhaul lines - has been fine with "formuline".

In the conditions I use this sail I really only fall in if I lose my balance kicking the cambers over with my foot . The sail is getting close to dialed in - the rotation was almost there.

I can't fault anyone for not wanting to go the 11.0 - 12.0 formula sail route - cost is significant although I got the sail/mast/boom on close out. The rigging is obviously tricky and a hurdle that is not fun compared to every other sail I've owned. There is nothing wrong with saying that I don't want to windsurf if I have to use anything bigger than 10.0 (or 8.0, or 6.0 - depending on where you live). But I have a job and a cabin and busy children and if I get a day off and there is a chance to plane it is nice to be able to do it because my next chance may be 2 weeks later plus our season is short here in MN.