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Who pays for trolls?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2259
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Who pays for the Trolls on this site Reply with quote

Actually, I can give a pragmatic answer to "Who pays for the Trolls" on this site. It's people like 2nd Wind sports, and 2RAD, and Sailworks, and OO..............

And they love the discourse that Dean creates.
More power to them, says I.

-Craig
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2857

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Who pays for the Trolls on this site Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
Actually, I can give a pragmatic answer to "Who pays for the Trolls" on this site. It's people like 2nd Wind sports, and 2RAD, and Sailworks, and OO..............

And they love the discourse that Dean creates.
More power to them, says I.

-Craig


Wait for it......

You're going to get added to the "enabler" list now. Laughing
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 10946
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a very good read....

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-how-to-hack-an-election/
How to Hack an Election
Andrés Sepúlveda rigged elections throughout Latin America for almost a decade. He tells his story for the first time.

By Jordan Robertson, Michael Riley, and Andrew Willis | March 31, 2016
Photographs by Juan Arredondo
Quote:
Rendón, says Sepúlveda, saw that hackers could be completely integrated into a modern political operation, running attack ads, researching the opposition, and finding ways to suppress a foe’s turnout. As for Sepúlveda, his insight was to understand that voters trusted what they thought were spontaneous expressions of real people on social media more than they did experts on television and in newspapers. He knew that accounts could be faked and social media trends fabricated, all relatively cheaply. He wrote a software program, now called Social Media Predator, to manage and direct a virtual army of fake Twitter accounts. The software let him quickly change names, profile pictures, and biographies to fit any need. Eventually, he discovered, he could manipulate the public debate as easily as moving pieces on a chessboard—or, as he puts it, “When I realized that people believe what the Internet says more than reality, I discovered that I had the power to make people believe almost anything.”

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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NP wrote:
You should just keeping repeating that lie, over and over and over and over again like your claims about people wanting to harm you. Just like your hero Adolph used to do.



my hero BS, you act just like him and trump...

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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

real-human wrote:
NP wrote:
You should just keeping repeating that lie, over and over and over and over again like your claims about people wanting to harm you. Just like your hero Adolph used to do.



my hero BS, you act just like him and trump...


Your hero to a "T". You repeat the same BS over and over thinking it's believable. Face it, no one believes you, but you.

So I take it your BS about the paid troll, and someone stating there was a paid troll, and that there is someone as crazy as you who would pay a troll / shill to post here for no logical reason, is nothing more of than your repetitive Hilter-esque repetitive nonsense?

Come one genius, beat the ---- out of us with your facts.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Who pays for the Trolls on this site Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
Actually, I can give a pragmatic answer to "Who pays for the Trolls" on this site. It's people like 2nd Wind sports, and 2RAD, and Sailworks, and OO..............

And they love the discourse that xxxx creates.
More power to them, says I.

-Craig

yep my discourse will never end till right wingers stop killing friends of mine in cold blood for being gay, and keeping their racism to harm my brother and sister that are black for one.

Two, till we have elections where every americans vote is counted as a right, not a privialige. A democracy can only be considered a democracy when everyone who is an american has the ability to vote without resistance. What was the id used by the founders for one.

Three, when we finally have a free press not a trust fund kid owned press, or oligarch owned press, or a religious owned press.

I am sure there are more that I will continue using my laser guided points to show how stupid specially ultra right wingers and their paid trolls are...

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by real-human on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NP wrote:
real-human wrote:
NP wrote:
You should just keeping repeating that lie, over and over and over and over again like your claims about people wanting to harm you. Just like your hero Adolph used to do.



my hero BS, you act just like him and trump...


Your hero to a "T". You repeat the same BS over and over thinking it's believable. Face it, no one believes you, but you.

So I take it your BS about the paid troll, and someone stating there was a paid troll, and that there is someone as crazy as you who would pay a troll / shill to post here for no logical reason, is nothing more of than your repetitive Hilter-esque repetitive nonsense?

Come one genius, beat the ---- out of us with your facts.


Well do a search on the forum you will find it... or I can post the name of the person who outed this person,,,, if you agree you will never post on this forum ever again...

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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KGB-NP



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2857

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

real-human wrote:
NP wrote:
real-human wrote:
NP wrote:
You should just keeping repeating that lie, over and over and over and over again like your claims about people wanting to harm you. Just like your hero Adolph used to do.



my hero BS, you act just like him and trump...


Your hero to a "T". You repeat the same BS over and over thinking it's believable. Face it, no one believes you, but you.

So I take it your BS about the paid troll, and someone stating there was a paid troll, and that there is someone as crazy as you who would pay a troll / shill to post here for no logical reason, is nothing more of than your repetitive Hilter-esque repetitive nonsense?

Come one genius, beat the ---- out of us with your facts.


Well do a search on the forum you will find it... or I can post the name of the person who outed this person,,,, if you agree you will never post on this forum ever again...


What's up with that Adolph? What happened to freedom of speech? I'll say whatever I want to here, and you better learn to deal with it, and stop with the crybaby routine because you don't like it.

You do a search!?!?!? Hah! Why start now? You've been too lazy to ever do one in the past to support your repetitive Hitler lying ways. Go knock yourself out with the searches because that would be the first time. Go ahead and name the person who outed this person. What do you care? You couldn't possible be worried about offending anyone. That's never been a concern in the past for you.

So again....

Who's this paid shill?

Who pointed the paid shill out?

Why would anyone pay someone to shill on an obscure sport sub sub sub forum?

We're all waiting for you to beat the ---- out of us with your facts.

This should be good. Remember you are the one who made all these claims.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 10946
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.skepticalaboutskeptics.org/resources/videos-of-interest/sharyl-attkisson-astroturf-and-manipulation-of-media-messages/

SHARYL ATTKISSON: ASTROTURF AND MANIPULATION OF MEDIA MESSAGES
Veteran investigative journalist, Sharyl Attkisson breaks down the phenomenon of astroturf, i.e.,the fake “grassroots movements” of trolls funded by political, corporate, or other special interests, who form a phalanx which very effectively manipulate and distort media messages, especially on the Internet, and on Wikipedia in particular.

http://www.desmogblog.com/right-wingers-using-craigslist-to-recruit-trolls
Are Right Wingers Seriously Using Craigslist To Recruit Trolls For Canadian Election?

Quote:
Today a campaign on behalf of a public relations firm to skew online debate about the Canadian election was caught using Craigslist to recruit new writers to their cause.

The series of job postings appeared in major cities across the country, and invited prospective writers to apply for jobs to post on newspaper comment sections, media forums, facebook pages, and other online outlets. The goal? To “help balance the left-wing bias of the major media outlets”.

Though the ads were promptly flagged and removed from Craigslist, we scored a screen cap.

With Canada early on into an election campaign, one can only wonder on just what scale this type of organized astroturf online trolling exists.
The public relations firm charged on behalf of a political organization to recruit young trolls ennumerated the ideal skillsets of desireable candidates. Successful saboteurs of honest conversation were to be chosen based on strong writing skills, consistent tone, ability to find or make up facts and statistics to rouse controversy. The ability to use humour, sarcasm and personal insults was considered an asset, and bonuses were offered for particularly biting and provocative commentary that caused a stir.

Bloggers and commentators across the country have been scratching their heads wondering if the ads are bogus or not. Assuming this is real and not a hoax, Canada is not alone in a growing trend of online astroturf. There is growing evidence of the existence of sophisticated “denier-bot” networks that are used to distort public debate and discussion.

Recently, Happy Rockefeller over at Daily Kos broke the story of a leaked document from a private security firm that demonstrated the sophisticated technology that enables public relations firms to create a Justin Beiber flashmob online with only a few voices.

The report prompted others to wonder about the state of online democracy when online debate becomes a “bonanza for corporate lobbyists, viral marketers and government spin doctors, who can operate in cyberspace without regulation, accountability or fear of detection.” ClimateProgress has similarly noted “the same arguments and phrasings keep cropping up in the comments’ section of the many unmoderated news sites on the web,” particuarly when that discussion is about climate change.

George Monbiot is one of the most eloquent commentators on the subject of online astroturf. As he so potently phrases it, online astroturf “has the potential to destroy the internet as a forum for constructive debate. It makes a mockery of online democracy.”

Monbiot closes with the burning question that’s on all our minds: How do we fight back?


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140714/10462727873/latest-snowden-revelations-suggest-gchq-is-just-like-4chan-trolls-with-more-firepower.shtml



Quote:

Here are the programs Greenwald highlights:
“Change outcome of online polls” (UNDERPASS)
“Mass delivery of email messaging to support an Information Operations campaign” (BADGER) and “mass delivery of SMS messages to support an Information Operations campaign” (WARPARTH)
“Disruption of video-based websites hosting extremist content through concerted target discovery and content removal.” (SILVERLORD)
“Active skype capability. Provision of real time call records (SkypeOut and SkypetoSkype) and bidirectional instant messaging. Also contact lists.” (MINIATURE HERO)
“Find private photographs of targets on Facebook” (SPRING BISHOP)
“A tool that will permanently disable a target’s account on their computer” (ANGRY PIRATE)
“Ability to artificially increase traffic to a website” (GATEWAY) and “ability to inflate page views on websites” (SLIPSTREAM)
“Amplification of a given message, normally video, on popular multimedia websites (Youtube)” (GESTATOR)
“Targeted Denial Of Service against Web Servers” (PREDATORS FACE) and “Distributed denial of service using P2P. Built by ICTR, deployed by JTRIG” (ROLLING THUNDER)
“A suite of tools for monitoring target use of the UK auction site eBay (www.ebay.co.uk)” (ELATE)
“Ability to spoof any email address and send email under that identity” (CHANGELING)
“For connecting two target phone together in a call” (IMPERIAL BARGE)
Quote:
Latest Snowden Revelations Suggest GCHQ Is Just Like 4Chan Trolls, But With More Firepower
from the 4chan-gone-professional dept
So you misspent your teenage years as a 4chan troll and are trying to figure out what to do for a career? Given the latest revelations from the Snowden Files by Glenn Greenwald over at The Intercept, you might want to consider taking a job for the UK's equivalent to the NSA, better known as GCHQ. As Greenwald details (and the embedded document below reveals), among GCHQ's capabilities in its Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG) are a bunch of things that sound quite a bit like traditional internet trolling efforts. These include juicing internet polls to vote for GCHQ's favorite candidate (remember when moot was voted Time's Person of the Year in an online poll?) as well as flooding email inboxes or websites and even connecting two people on the phone and listening to the conversation.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this one is funny right wing trolls want to unionize ..... when they spend their time attacking those who believe in unions...


http://www.shakesville.com/2007/08/right-wing-trolls-work-to-form-labor.html


Quote:
Right-wing trolls work to form labor union
Posted by William K Wolfrum at Wednesday, August 08, 2007
TULSA, Okla -- The blog poster known as "Slick Rick" was in a bad mood. A thin layer of Cheeto dust covered his desk and keyboard. He hadn't bathed in days. His hands hurt from hours of trolling around progressive Web sites, desperately trying to engage left-leaning commentors to take his bait.

His most recent comment: "You know, if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about," in a post about the U.S. government's eavesdropping programs had gotten very little response, aside from a snide "Go away, troll" at the site Firedoglake.

"You know," said Slick Rick via Skype. "Being a troll used to mean something. These days, it's just work, all day, every day."

Slick Rick isn't alone. A full year ahead of the 2008 U.S. elections, the demands on right-wing trolls are higher than ever. Between questioning what law Scooter Libby broke, to assailing the patriotism of any and all that would question the long-running war in Iraq, to trying to get Cindy Sheehan's name into any discussion about anything, the average troll has a busy, if completely unfulfilling existence.

Which is part of the reason why a loosely formed coalition of right-wing trolls are trying to band together to form a labor union that they hope will help them receive health insurance, conduct collective bargaining or even set professional standards.

Organizers hope a trolls' labor group the importance of their roles in candidates' campaigns.

"There are progressive blogs everywhere and the GOP needs us to do whatever it takes to get their message scrambled," said Jocko, a troll who spends most of his days and nights monitoring the site OliverWillis.com. "I don't see Dick Cheney out there on the front lines like us, saying anything to stem the tide."

For the trolls, however, while they are much-hated and considered an outright drain on democracy by many, there have been signs of hope. The company Advantage Consulting has actively worked with trolls, sending out legions of them to "astro-turf" subjects ranging from stem-cell research to health care and the economy.

For many trolls, however, more needs to be done.

"When you create as many straw men per day as I do, It's exhausting," said Toad the Wet Sprocket, a right-wing troll who alternates between the sites Crooks & Liars and the Spacey Gracey Review. "We expect communists like John Kerry to flip-flop on issues. But we need to unionize."

Of course, there's the obvious question: Aren't right-wingers, by their very nature, anti-union? It would seem like something that would stop the movement directly in its tracks. Luckily for them, however, right-wing trolls have been shown to be nearly completely impervious to logic. Slick Rick was noticeably angered when the concept was brought up to him;

"Are you kidding me? What are you, a commie?" said Slick Rick angrily. "Of course we could, and should unionize. We need health care. We need financial support. We're fighting to save this country from becoming a welfare state and to keep people like Che Hillary from just giving away taxpayers' money."

This leads to another interesting dilemma for the trolls - according to a recent survey by researchers at Shakesville University, nearly half of right-wing trolls were clearly unaware that they were, in fact, trolls. Noted behavioral scientist Tyler Reynolds of the University of Hawaii said it's a perplexing issue.

"It's hard to get into the mind of some of these trolls," said Reynolds. "They'll argue - vehemently - both sides of an issue for hours, if need be, against anyone. Yet they refuse to accept their inherent trollness."

Reynolds listed a few common traits of a troll:

- Spending an inordinate amount of time where you're not wanted;
- A slavish, dog-like obedience to authority;
- A willingness to mimic any talking point;
- A willingness to change any opinion you hold at the drop of the President's hat;
- A contempt for those who challenge you on any point.

Reynolds admitted that the traits aren't foolproof in detecting full-time trolls - just glancing through them, one immediately pictures Alberto Gonzalez, who is the U.S. Attorney General, and only a part-time troll on such major sites as The Huffington Post, commenting under the name "Gonzo Tex-Mex."

Other right-wing troll traits include calling those that disagree with you communists, as well as not being able to actually define what a communist is. When asked what a communist is, Toad the Wet Sprocket angrily lashed out "Only a communist would ask a stupid question like that. Commie."

In the end, the battle to unionize a rag-tag group of anonymous typing graffiti artists would seem an impossible quest. When asked why he believe creating a labor union for right-wing trolls was possible, Slick Rick gave a rambling answer that had nothing whatsoever to do with the question.

"Why is it that you hate America so much?" said Slick Rick. "Our troops are over there fighting them so we don't have to fight them here. But the liberal media still wants socialized medicine? You know, people like you and the people of New Orleans are always looking for a hand out. Well, the free ride is over. You, and Rosie O'Donnell, and Ward Churchill, and Cindy Sheehan will be hung for treason one day soon. God Bless America. God Bless George Bush, and death to the Islamofascists."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/undermining-independent-media-how-to-beat-the-internet-trolls/5440758

Undermining Independent Media: How to Beat the “Internet Trolls”



Quote:
In Order To Beat ‘Em, You Have to Know Their Game …

In order to beat Internet trolls, you have to know their strategies.

Below are 17 common games played by trolls to disrupt our power to learn, inform, and organize on the web …

1. Threaten those who speak out, to try to intimidate them and their readers into silence.

2. Misquote the Bible to pretend that God commands us to be obedient slaves to authority … even if the powers-that-be are downright tyrants.

3. Start a partisan divide-and-conquer fight or otherwise push emotional buttons to sow discord and ensure that cooperation is thwarted. Get people fighting against each other instead of the 3corrupt powers-that-be. Use baseless caricatures to rile everyone up. For example, start a religious war whenever possible using stereotypes like “all Jews are selfish”, “all Christians are crazy” or “all Muslims are terrorists”. Accuse the author of being a gay, pro-abortion limp-wristed wimp or being a fundamentalist pro-war hick when the discussion has nothing to do with abortion, sexuality, religion, war or region. Appeal to people’s basest prejudices and biases. And (as explained by H. Michael Sweeney’s 25 Rules of Disinformation) push the author into a defensive posture:

Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule … Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks”, “right-wing”, “liberal”, “left-wing”, “terrorists”, “conspiracy buffs”, “radicals”, “militia”, “racists”, “religious fanatics”, “sexual deviates”, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

(The person trying to smear reputation may not be a random knucklehead … he may, in fact, be a government agent, or a member of the group he’s smearing.)

4. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive. Or accuse the author of being a narcissist.

5. Pretend it’s hopeless because we’ll be squashed if we try. For example, every time a whistleblower leaks information, say “he’s going to be bumped off”. If people talk about protesting, organizing, boycotting, shareholder activism, spreading the real facts, moving our money or taking other constructive action, write things to scare and discourage people, say something like “we don’t have any chance because they have drones and they’ll just kill us if we try”, or “Americans are too stupid, lazy and greedy, so they’ll never help out.” Encourage people to be apathetic instead of trying to change things.

6. Demand complete, fool-proof and guaranteed solutions to the problems being discussed. For example, if a reporter breaks the story that the big banks conspired to rig a market, ask “given that people are selfish and that no regulation can close all possible loopholes … how are you going to change human nature?”, and pretend that it’s not worth talking about the details of the market manipulation. This discourages people from reporting on and publicizing the corruption, fraud and other real problems. And it ensures that not enough people will spread the facts so that the majority know what’s really going on.

7. Suggest extreme, over-the-top, counter-productive solutions which will hurt more than help, or which are wholly disproportionate to what is being discussed. For example, if the discussion is whether or not to break up the big banks or to go back on the gold standard, say that everyone over 30 should be killed because they are sell-outs and irredeemable, or that all of the banks should be bombed. This discredits the attempt to spread the facts and to organize, and is simply the web method of the provocateur.

8. Pretend that alternative media – such as blogs written by the top experts in their fields, without any middleman – are untrustworthy or are motivated solely by money (for example, use the derogatory term “blogspam” for any blog posting, pretending that there is no original or insightful reporting, but that the person is simply doing it for ad revenue).

9. Coordinate with a couple of others to “shout down” reasonable comments. This is especially effective when the posters launch an avalanche of comments in quick succession … the original, reasonable comment gets lost or attacked so much that it is largely lost. Use “forum sliding” and “topic dilution” to so dilute and distract the conversation that people forget the original point.

10. Use technology and numbers to gain leverage. You can either hire low-wage workers in India or other developing countries to “astroturf” (see this and this) or – if you work for the government – you can use military personnel or subcontractors to monitor social media and “correct” information which you don’t like (and see this). You can pay students to post pro-government comments online. You can even use software which allows you to quickly create and alternate between numerous false identities, each with their own internet address. Or program software to write the comments itself.

11. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the “How dare you!” gambit.

12. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

13. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues — so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

14. Censor social media, so that the hardest-hitting information is buried. If you can’t censor it, set up “free speech zones” to push dissent into dank, dark corners where no one will see it.

15. When the powers-that-be cut corners and take criminally reckless gambles with our lives and our livelihoods, protect them by pretending that the inevitable result – nuclear accidents, financial crises,terrorist attacks or other disasters – were “unforeseeable” and that “no could have known”.

16. Protect the rich and powerful by labeling any allegations of criminal activity as being a “conspiracy theory”. After all, it was the CIA itself which created the perjorative term “conspiracy theorist” and gave advice on how to attack people on that basis. For example, when Goldman gets caught rigging markets, label the accusations as mere conspiracies. Throw in the tired out cliches “tinfoil hat” and “live in your mom’s basement.”

17. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain the criticism — simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent’s viewpoint.

Postscript: Over a number of years, we’ve found that the most effective way to fight disruption and disinformation is to link to a post such as this one which rounds up disruption techniques, and then to cite the disinfo technique you think is being used.

Specifically, we’ve found the following format to be highly effective in educating people in a non-confrontational manner about which game the troll is playing:

Good Number 1!

Or simply:

#7

(include the link so people can see what you’re referring to.)

The reason this is effective is that other readers will learn about the specific disruption tactic being used … in context, like seeing wildlife while holding a wildlife guide, so that one learns what it looks like “in the field”. At the same time, you come across as humorous and light-hearted instead of heavy-handed or overly-intense.

Try it … It works.

The original source of this article is Washington's Blog
Copyright © Washington's Blog, Washington's Blog, 2015

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