myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Flooding in Great Britain, climate change and sea level rise
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprised. Solutions require understanding. Blame does not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The changes in flood management in Great Britain over the last few decades are staggering, and perhaps warrant understanding and analysis. In 1989, when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minster, the National Rivers Authority (NRA) was created to manage flood control, among other functions, as part of her interest in privatization of utility services. But further changes were afoot, perhaps indicating that privatization was less than a complete success. In 1995 legislation, the Environmental Agency was created to replace the NRA assume flood control responsibilities. But the floods of 2007 led to the Pitt Report, which recommended further changes based on the lessons of those floods, and the result was the Flood and Water Management Act of 2010. In implementing that Act, the Environmental Agency developed a list of 1500 different projects, and a budget of 2.3 billion pounds. It is not clear to me how many of those projects have been implemented, how they might have affected the potential for flooding from the recent storms, or how the budget has changed over time.

Construction activities, either new construction or maintenance, whether done by governmental employees or contractors, require an approved budget. It seems pretty clear that the politicians in the UK have been dissatisfied with the governance of flood control, for whatever reasons, since 1988. It seems equally clear that reforms have not been successful, and perhaps have not even been consistent. It would not surprise me to see another effort like the Pitt study to look at flooding issues, and further changes. Perhaps debate over climate change will make those discussions rancorous. But before we reject the possibility of climate change having affected the recent flooding, perhaps we should look at this:


Quote:
The exceptional rainfall that wreaked havoc across northern England and Scotland as Storm Desmond tore through the UK can be linked to man-made global warming, scientists have claimed.
Climate change increased the chance of such record rains by about 40 per cent, according to data compiled by an international team of researchers from institutions including Oxford university and the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute.

“The increase we found is small but robust,” said Dr Friederike Otto of Oxford’s Environmental Change Institute, adding the range of the increased likelihood was between 5 per cent and 80 per cent.
The research was released as delegates from nearly 200 countries inched closer to striking a new global climate accord in Paris that is intended to limit the carbon dioxide emissions driving higher temperatures.
The study is part of a relatively new and still contentious branch of climate science that attempts to explain what links, if any, can be made between extreme weather and climate change.
Scientists broadly agree that warming global temperatures are likely to bring more heatwaves, intense storms and other weather extremes but say it is difficult to say exactly which events are directly caused by a changing climate.
So-called attribution science tries to determine possible connections by using climate models and weather data.

The researchers looking at Storm Desmond, in which more than 13 inches of rain fall in one part of Cumbria within 24 hours, came to their conclusions using statistical analyses of the historical temperature record and thousands of simulations of possible weather, as well as a regional climate model.
Dr Otto said the finding that climate change did have a role in the heavy rains was still relatively rare.
Earlier attribution science research found no global warming link with the torrential downpours that caused the Thailand floods in 2011 or the subsequent flooding of the rivers Elbe and Danube in Germany two years later.
But researchers have claimed to have found climate change increased the odds of a severe drought in Texas and freakishly warm November weather in Britain four years ago.
Thousands of properties across Cumbria were flooded and tens of thousands of homes lost power as Storm Desmond triggered landslides, burst riverbanks and caused bridges to collapse.
The scientists who conducted the research on the storm are part of an international network called World Weather Attribution that was recently formed to provide near real-time attribution analysis of weather events.
Storm Desmond is the second extreme bout of weather the group has investigated almost immediately.
They first looked at the heatwaves that affected much of Europe this summer. The scientists concluded that such heatwaves now occur at least twice as often over a large part of Europe and at least four times more often in some of the hottest cities.
The World Weather Attribution network includes the Red Cross/Red Crescent Climate Centre in The Hague, which said its findings could provide valuable information to governments faced with difficult questions over changing climate risks.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e1466920-9f81-11e5-8613-08e211ea5317.html#axzz3w2ZEcin3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I object to the opening of that presentation, which smacks of bias.

'The exceptional (a change from unprecedented, at least) rainfall that wreaked havoc ........CAN be linked to man made global warming.'

Simply substitute any of the great recorded events of the past, the extreme storm sequence of the 1700's or,in our times, the extreme storm tidal surge of 1953 which breeched Hollands dikes, and demolished many old Victorian properties along the S,coast -I stood and watched such happen as a young teen- and the same statement could stand.

Also, that great event of 1953 was what actually kick-started the bout of rebuilding many of our sea defences (a wake up call that extreme events occur) especially along the S. coast. It had nothing to do with politics!

Nobody in their right mind disputes the possibility that our actions MAY contribute to global warming, but such events cannot as yet be claimed as proof, no matter how many scientists claim otherwise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As quoted in today's Independent Newspaper.

'The Met Office said that a strong El Nino could be influencing our weather by increasing the probability of a "positive phase" of the North Atlantic Occilation, which is associated with milder and wetter than average conditions over our part of Western Europe.'

Hardly a ringing endorsement of that claim that ....

'the exceptional rainfall....CAN be linked to man made global warming.'

Perhaps the Met Office has been stung by past accusations that they had been a little less objective in their whole hearted approach to 'pushing' the man made global warming agenda. I've certainly noticed a 'cooling' of that approach, or a more guarded set of public statements, these last couple of years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
I object to the opening of that presentation, which smacks of bias.

It is instructive to look at the source of the article.......the World Weather Attribution network.

"The World Weather Attribution (WWA) is a new international effort designed to sharpen and accelerate the scientific community’s ability to analyze and communicate the possible influence of climate change on extreme-weather events such as storms, floods, heat waves and droughts."

The sole purpose of this group is to find linkages between global warming (to them, an undisputed fact) and extreme weather. Surprise, surprise! In matter of days after the event, their painstakingly thorough and exhaustive research has revealed that the recent heavy rains in the UK can be linked to man made global warming. Perhaps someone can provide us with their opinion on the exceptional cold and snow experienced in the UK over the past 5 or 6 years. Their opinions should be treated with the same caution as those of some of the skeptic groups.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This much is nearly true:

Quote:
... to ascribe such flooding events to either increased rainfall, or increased frequency of such owing to CLIMATE CHANGE is as yet, an assumption, not proven fact.

What the future may prove, or disprove, is to many of us with a grasp of history, an open question.


This much is not:

Quote:
The sole purpose of this group is to find linkages between global warming (to them, an undisputed fact) and extreme weather.


Apparently "possible influence" escaped mrgybe's attention. He also ignored the statistical analysis part of the posting. I know, statistics was very challenging.

It is equally "daft" to either conclude that the more severe storms in Britain were made worse by global warming, or are unrelated to global warming. Instead, it is reasonable to test a hypothesis that there is a relationship between those storms and climate change with different methods, including statistical analysis. It may be entirely unrelated to climate change that Britain has had severe storms in 2007, 2014, and 2015, or it may well be evidence of the predictions of climate change models that storms will be more frequent and severe.

To ignore the possibility that the vast amount of heat stored in the ocean in the last few decades could be increasing the severity of storms is well beyond "daft."

Perhaps mrgybe can google the difference between hypothesis, assumption, and carbon company funded denial outfits?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing is for sure, we only have 24 days left to fix this!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

24 days to Al Gore’s ’10 years to save the planet’ and ‘point of no return’ planetary emergency deadline

Anthony Watts / 2 hours ago January 2, 2016

From the “say your prayers, we’re gonna roast” department.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/01/02/24-days-to-al-gores-10-years-to-save-the-planet-and-point-of-no-return-planetary-emergency-deadline/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to the World Weather Attribution's coordinator, Climate Central. If anyone can point to language in the description of WWA, which indicates that they do not regard global warming as a fact, please point to it. Those who struggle with sentence construction may still have difficulty. The "possible influence" referred to the linkages, not to the existence of global warming.
http://www.climatecentral.org/wwa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
The sole purpose of this group is to find linkages between global warming (to them, an undisputed fact) and extreme weather.

For the lefties whose heads that flew right over ... the purpose is not to determine the truth, but to find linkages (by implication, no matter how far-fetched or how coincidental.) i.e., If London gets warmer in July, it's global warming.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Facts:

-The earth has warmed about 1.5 degree over the last 100 years.
-2/3 of the warming has occurred since 1975
-warming in the arctic is occurring twice as fast as in the rest of the world
-land-based ice in Greenland is melting faster than predicted by most climate change models
-heat has accumulated in the ocean at the rate of 17 times 10 to the 22 power of joules over the last 30 years
-ocean heat is the energy that drives much of the weather on the globe

Most scientists accept not merely that the globe is heating--they do pay attention to facts--, but that much of the heat is due to human activities. The only serious debate in the literature is how much of the heating may be natural, and what the economic impacts of carbon dioxide controls might be.

Delusion--the ability to ignore facts that would disturb one's belief system.

Still waiting for a single peer-review study, much less a theory as to how the heat stored in the ocean is not affecting storm activity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group