JP FSW 111 Insane rant.

[dcoombes]

About me:
I sail in SF bay (3rd ave mainly). I weigh 240 lbs and I'm 6'2". I'm 43 years old and I've been sailing for over 15 years. I'm a lazy mediocre sailor, I'm certainly no athlete, I like to tear up and down, do some jumps, hit some gybes, I guess I'm pretty much a typical bump and jump sailor. I sail 2 or 3 times a week in the season.

Conditions:
Typical conditions are 18..26 mph winds, 2 foot wind chop on the inside, 6 foot rolling swell on the outside. Its perfect for bump and jump style sailing for nearly 6 months of the year in good seasons.

JP FSW111
I got this to replace a ~2008 FSW109. I use this in conditions from 18 up to 40... my long time every day sail was a 5.8 wave panther, but my 5.2 and 6.2 Prydes get some use too. I bought this board full retail (well north of 2 grand) sight unseen from a local retailer (supporting my local stores) on the assumption it would sail in a similar manner to its predecessor. Boy was I wrong.

The old board was a little slow on its top end and seemed to lack speed on exiting gybes, but otherwise was a great board to sail, it always felt safe and predictable and was very loose which was fun on the big swell. So much so that I stopped using my 100l(f2 max2air) board entirely.

The new board... where do I start. It feels like a 100l board, it doesn't plane up early or easily in chop and once up to speed its frankly, the most frightening thing I've ever sailed. The ride is incredibly harsh and unsettled and it has none of the lovely looseness the 108 had. The 108, you could get it on a wave face and slide down it at all kinds of weird angles of attack, the 111 has none of this, its no fun in swell. I'ts frightening in chop. This board has actually hurt me a couple of times.
Oh did I mention it spins out a lot? Every time you exit a gust in fact.

Sounds like I have too much back foot pressure right? But honestly i just think I'm too heavy for this board or its just too short for my height.

I suspect this board is completely different to the rest of the boards in its range and is probably designed to get a really fit 150 lb kid planing on glass flat water in Egypt so he can do spinning tricks...either that or it was put into production without much testing...

Anyway for my purposes this board is pretty much useless unlike its venerable ancestor which was almost perfect. Disappointing right? I've spent 2 summers getting my ass handed to me by this board in every way imaginable.

My problem then, is I need a different board but I'm wary of dumping another 2k on something I haven't test ridden. Maybe something else from JP's range like an all ride. Not married to JP, just using it for comparison purposes.. but I just don't know.
I don't have access to test rides or rental gear, I'd have to go to Maui or Mexico for that which would cost more than the board itself. My experience in the past with windsurf travel is the centers have very limited gear selection for big guys anyway.

I don't mind spending the money, I just want a product that thrills me rather than humiliating me.

Does anyone out there in my size weight range have a similar experience?

I don't mean to be rude, but if you are less than 200lbs, its a different sport for you.. us big guys have very limited gear choices... we are usually condemned to sailing stuff designed for light guys to sail in light winds... you get the 85L that got all the R&D

Any industry folks care to comment on how you market boards and whether you take the larger gentleman's needs into account?

Seems like rider height and weight ought to play a bigger part in gear selection?

Anyway, enough bitching, rumor has it, its gonna blow tomorrow, so fingers crossed I'll take the beast out for one more spin!

Dave

[dllee]

Change fin, move straps back, move mast base back....
Newer FSW's have narrower tails, wide point farther forwards, than pre '09's.
Spin out is caused by crap stock fin, might I suggest a Ames Convert 12". I use a 10.75, good enough for 6.0 but you're bigger.
Straps back allows a smaller board at high speed and chop.
Track back frees up the belly to the nose, for less pounding, and but we're talking 1' here. Just forward of center is a good starting point.
Before you say I"m 150 lbs., and know nothing, I will say my sailing buds were all over 235 lbs., one 275 lbs., and the tyke was 195 lbs.
That's a huge board for 25+ winds, even for my 275 lbs bud.
Most bud's around 235 were riding sub 58 cm boards for 25+ mph winds.

[dcoombes]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Yeah I have my mast foot about where you say, I moved it forward to try to tame the ride and also to give me more space/leverage when trying to get this sucker planing. When I run bigger sails I use a MFC Freewave 34 which is bit curvier than the stock fin. Any JP rep feel like commenting on the stock fin and quality thereof?

I have a single back strap mounted aft, but my front straps are forward and in. I guess I can try moving them back a little. I'll do that for tomorrow.

My problems are mostly at the bottom end though, high wind control isn't a problem for me. Its actually less scary when its blowing since I can water start into the harness and be planing straight away and I have loads of mfp to control it all. Its when I have to nurse it up onto the plane through wind chop that this board is super evil. All that width up front has a tendancy to make it stop suddenly or get caught on waves. Then once its planning its bouncy/violent.

Thanks again though, I'll try the straps back tomorrow if it blows!
Dave

[dllee]

Well, there is a reason guys like Ferris Hamilton, Dave Leur's, Bob Bogdanovich, Jeff Bayles, and Dave Gould use narrower boards for winds over a 18-25 mph range. Nothing in the 65cm range is going to give high wind control, and certainly not early low wind planing prowess.
Maybe you need a 125 liter slalom board for up to 25 mph winds, then a smaller FSW for higher winds?
As for track positioning, that is a tough one. Track forwards does give you a bigger board to plane up, and hold a big sail with some rake angle, but most FSW's have short flat spots, and short overall rocker lines, so the board get's hobby horse efferct in higher winds as you rake the sail back onto a too short planing surface with too much rocker.
Personally, I have NEVER EVER found a 2 board solution nearly adaquate, so all though my 33 years of shortboard sailing, I've always owned at least 5 different windsurf boards EVERY year since 1983.
One board is like owning ONE gear in your car.

[dcoombes]

I absolutely don't want a slalom board, I want something I can play on 4 foot rolling swell in 22mph winds with a 5.8. That would be a typical day in the bay. My 109 was perfect for this, because it was calm, slowish, loose and had reasonable early planing and enough float to get home when the wind died.

I've been unable to get the 111 to perform in these conditions. Its a pig to get planing in cross chop and then it bounces around like crazy once its going.


I just noticed that JP replaced it this year with a new design... :-/

[cgoudie1]

Hey Dave,

I'm not over 200 lbs, but

You need a specialty board made for you, your style, and your venue.
for $2000 you can have one. In your area you might try Mike Zajicek.
I had a Mikes lab ( a slalom board though), and loved it. If you described
what you want, and your previous good board , he could make you something. Mark Nelson, on Maui, could make you something also, but
you might end up more than $2000. If you were in the Gorge, I'd recommend you at least talk to Brian Hinde at Open Ocean, I know he's
done copy shapes for people who had a real love for a specific board they
couldn't get any more, and he's made a few "big guy boards".

Just a thought,

-Craig

[dllee]

Lucky for me I'm only 150 lbs.
2004 JPFSW84 is just about perfect, from underpowerd 4.2 thru powered up 5.5 conditions. Of course, the stock fin is in the trash bin, and I use different fins for different winds and water conditions, usually 3.
When I tried the '12 JPFSW, I was disappointed. The slightly narrower tailed coupled with WPoint farther forwards fed me a more muted feel, much less lively, stiffer, and less turny. And the narrower tail OFO seemed to make the board later to plane, but possibly carve more direct and positively, something in abundance with the old FSW84 that I bought from Kevin a decade or so ago.
The reason I don't go bigger on that board is that a slalom board of that size, or bigger, just planes up sooner, goes faster, and more upwind easier, and floats back to shore, in addition to jumping higher.

[manuel]

Please give us fin specs, board year?
I tried their 2011 112(?) with a 7.2 and thought it was quite good.
Lately I have tried their 2013 84L and enjoyed it particularly in the waves.
Something sounds odd here.

[jingebritsen]

i sailed the FSW 102 while i was renting in maui recently. frst time i sailed it the wind was not strong. it was raining and very onshore at kanaha. i ended up havinhg to go back for much larger gear.

i sailed it again in fairly lit up conditions my last 2 days at kanaha with much more wind.

again my conclusions that short and wide boards from all brands REQUIRE perfectly lit conditions has been validated. the JP board was great, as a single fin, at doing what i like best in wave sailing: blasting past the slog and bobbers, and grabbing lotsa waves, and riding them as well as any blingy multifin potato chip boards. the key was i had far more wind and i held onto a 6.2 sail.....

again, all brands seem to be sacrificing worldly needs for planing power, so we all can have turny, snappy turns or push loop to forward options. hello industry designers, we need to plane before these other things!!!!!

dcoombes, look for longer hulls in the exocet line that would be the cross series. the 114 is great. believe it or not, anything below 240 cm, i have noticed every 1 cm shorter in length. shoot, if i had it my way, we'd all be on 265 long boards or much longer. pro's can their custom boards to do all that goitery crap they want anyway.

i am 210 lbs, and i like to pump to plane with less than perfectly lit sails as the next guy, boards below 240n in length don't allow most sailors in most venues that option.

btw, after sailing short boards most of the time in maui, i was amazed at the glide power of my 11'5" board during some smooth planing jibes yesterday.

[MalibuGuru]

Exocet is a far better designed board than JP. The old xwave 105 would kick ass over any new JP. Even better are the new boards.