Windsup vs SUP vs Old longboard

[dyz36]

I have an old Equipe which I sail on Lake Michigan. I am considering getting a windsup, either an Exocet or BIC, for riding swell and small waves. I do not care much about planing in this application. The Equipe has no tail rocker and it does not catch waves well. A typical SUP has much more tail rocker but few of them accommodate windsurfing sails. Where do windsups place between these two extremes? Am I better off converting a SUP for wave riding? What should I be looking in a SUP for this purpose? Would either one catch waves/swell significantly better than the Equipe?

I have never sailed a SUP or a WindSUP and I do not have a way of testing one against the other.

Thanks!

[wynsurfer]

Most sailboard manufacturers now have a line of windsups. Starboard, Exocet RRD, Bic to name a few. I would not convert a paddleboard to windsurf, since they are easily obtained.

Like you, I too have an old longboard and also like you had never paddled or sailed a windsup, so i talked to my local shop owner who suggested the Starboard Whopper, which is 10" X 34" wide and about 190 L volume. It has a removable daggerboard which fits a deep Tuttle box, and three back fins. As long as the wind is around 10 mph, I find i don't need the daggerboard. This board was super easy to learn to paddle on and sail. It has lots of rocker and loves waves, which is where it really comes alive. I would imagine other manufacturers have similar models.

I think there are some models out there with a sailboard rocker, so be sure check.

[U2U2U2]

I installed a mast track in my BIC Sup, easy peavey.

If you were going in the ocean , I would look for a different shape, mine is pretty wave oriented tho. With 3 fins, a 2+1 setup.


I am probably in a minority, in that my friends have paddled it more than me.
Primary is wind sup, also called a hybrid.

I suggest figure how much use you would have, paddle , with a sail,
If a budget exists, AHD SEA LION , WOULD call my name without a budget

[jingebritsen]

exocet windSUP 10', 11'8", AND X-longboards all have planing rockers, yet they excel at wave riding too.

very big difference between a surf board rocker and a windsurf one. the compromise would be anything over 11'. i have sailed the naish nalu 11'4" and jp 11'02" successfully in ocean surf. they both are nearly as good as the exocets, but do not plane under wind power alone. to me, why not have both in one board?

if the windsurfing industry had not scoffed its base, and produced windsurfing oriented planing SUP's concurrently with some surf board oriented designs, where would we be as a sport? i have ridden and reviewed windSUP's that are not meant to plane by wind power alone enough to see and feel a lack of enthusiasm to ride them even in good surf in sailing mode. not just me but lots of others have tried and don't use them either. they plod.

the obsession with turning performance at the expense of all other performance characteristics is quite self destructive for our sport.

[gvogelsang]

don't get rid of the old Equipe. There will be plenty of days where you can sail that board, go upwind and downwind, and have a great time exploring on it.

Think of your next board as an addition, not a substitution.

[isobars]

SEARCH this forum for the AHD Sea Lion/SeaLion comments and Google the internet for Sea Lion videos. You just described their strongest points ... not to mention that they fit inside my Subaru and can also be sailed in winds from 1 to 40 mph.

[brynkaufman2]

I have both the BIC WindSUP 10 and the Exocet WindSUP 10. Like you I did not think I needed to plane in the foot straps, so I initially bought the BIC. After a number of months I realized I wanted something more high performance, so I bought the Exocet.

The Exocet has exceeded my performance expectations. It is an amazing board. The speed, performance, turning ability, everything about it was better than I thought it would be.

If you are 100% sure you are not going to want to plane and you don't need foot straps the BIC has a lot to like. It is a lot less expensive, and it seems to be a tougher board. It is easier to carry, and feels lighter than the Exocet with the dagger board. The BIC has 3 fins, so if you get closer to the beach, it is nice to have a fin that does not go as deep.

If I have to paddle or the wind is really light and I just want to catch waves I take the BIC. I have no foot straps to get in my way and it is more stable in the choppy water and easier to carry.

However, most of my days now are on the Exocet, as I have become addicted to the high performance aspect of this board. My last session I was doing both speed runs and surfing good sized swells and I felt like I never went as fast before, nor did I excel at catching the waves like I do now with the Exocet.

[joethewindsufa]

was lookin' to compare shapes and tripped over Jimbo's chart

[isobars]

I'm sorry, but it looks like Jimbo has never even looked at, let alone sailed, a Sea Lion, nor seen their videos. I can't and won't pretend to compare it to other windSUPS, but I have sailed the hell out of my SL in a wide variety of conditions from flat to heavy chop to overhead swell to big chop on big swell (aka chopswell), so the chart puzzles me.

"Fast rocker"? No way! It's a classic banana rocker, as assessed by measurement, by behavior, and by a very experienced professional SUP/wind
SUP/WS board shaper and manufacturer. Its entire reason for being is surf, and its east coast dealer even insisted that it is not suitable for any other environment under sail. I'm very glad I ignored that bum assessment.

It's not clear to me why it wouldn't work for beginner WSing, but then I learned 35 years ago on longboards and have never sailed a START, so I can't compare the two approaches. What the SL does offer the beginner WSer is lateral stability, a clear deck, easy uphauling, very good pointing ability whether planing or slogging, a smooth and quick transition between planing and slogging, slow top speed (because of the very substantial rocker that lets it turn very easily at any speed), and lots of room for operator error.

Same goes for nonplaning (slogging) WSing. Again, look at the videos. The SL is very easy to turn down a wave face when slogging, at which point the slope and a quick pump take over and you're planing ... at least until you run out of slope. It's not a long glider, again due to its pronounced wave rocker.

What's wrong with its planing WSing? Yes, it's slow compared to fast wave boards (that rocker again), but when I want speed I'd be on a faster board. But whether really powered up or just planing on and off in marginal winds, it offers exceptional turning, carving instantaneous off-the-lips WAY up on one rail to snap from pointing very high to running dead downwind, for example, then cutting back upwind or running dead downwind for miles on a full plane in Gorge swell (i.e., onshore conditions). The videos show serious performance capabilities in sideshore and side-off waves, in both marginal and fully powered conditions. Forced onto a strapless windSUP by knee surgery prohibiting footstraps and jumping but allowing all the slashing and wind range I could muster, I was very pleasantly surprised at its performance in an even broader range of Gorge conditions than I'd sail on ANY board (that 1 to 40 range exceeds any other board I own. Hell, it exceeds the collective range of all 30 of my wave and Gorge boards, 'cause I can't slog any of them in 1 mph breezes.) I learned significant new WSing skills on the SL that clearly improved my WSing skillset, to the point that I now do all day some things I see almost no one else doing in my neck of the Gorge.

"N/A for beginnner SUP"? WTH is he talking about? I had never even touched an SUP when I bought my SL based on research, and I have very impaired balance, yet my first outdoor paddling experiences on it were in miles of flat water connected to the wide open Columbia River. I had a ball, falls and all. OF COURSE it doesn't glide like a 16 footer with a keel, but try railing one of those barges up on one rail off a lip in a 120-degree snap turn. And how well do they do running dead down a wave face into the trough under power or coasting while paddling?

On flat water, I'm sure I'd prefer the 16 footer built for speed and glide ... if I could stay on the dang thing withmy lousy balance. But the OP wants a board for subplaning winds in waves ... the whole reason for the SL's very existence.

"Poor" in waves? Again, look at the videos of entire large fleets of SLs playing in side-off waves, surrounded by slogging -- as in barely moving -- WSers, and tell us SL's don't work in waves.

Sorry, Jimbo, but what are you smoking?

[dyz36]

Thank you for all your responses. Sounds like I got answers to my questions:

1. Where do windsups place between these two extremes? Am I better off converting a SUP for wave riding? What should I be looking in a SUP for this purpose? - windsups are better for sail powered wave riding than SUPs

2. Would either one catch waves/swell significantly better than the Equipe? - definitely yes.

One thing that still confuses me in the chart: why is a SUP inferior to a WindSUP for light wave riding? If it is 10+ knots I will be on the Equipe or a wide short board so I am talking about sailing in 6 knots. Does not the banana shape rocker offer better wave catching abilities than a flat rocker even with a step tail? Or the difference in wave catching is so negligible that the ability to plane occasionally far outweighs it?