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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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135L as the only board for a 190 pound beginner in winds averaging 10 mph ... 16 on unusually windy days? I just don't buy that. Wouldn't he get MUCH more TOW with MUCH more fun and thus MUCH more progress on fully 50% more volume ... another 100 liters if a narrow longboard?
I've also never bought this business of being able to sail shallower waters because we're using shorter fins unless one's comparing 50 cm to 20 cm and only while launching . Even then the bottom AND the top -- the water's surface -- would have to be perfectly flat and predictable to make a difference I'd want to bet my pretty face or my cervical vertebrae on when planing
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | 135L as the only board for a 190 pound beginner in winds averaging 10 mph ... 16 on unusually windy days? I just don't buy that. Wouldn't he get MUCH more TOW with MUCH more fun and thus MUCH more progress on fully 50% more volume ... another 100 liters if a narrow longboard?
I've also never bought this business of being able to sail shallower waters because we're using shorter fins unless one's comparing 50 cm to 20 cm and only while launching . Even then the bottom AND the top -- the water's surface -- would have to be perfectly flat and predictable to make a difference I'd want to bet my pretty face or my cervical vertebrae on when planing |
Most used boards in the 160l+ range are expensive though $1600+
If I'm only going to use that board for a season, it seems a lot.
Of course more TOW water is good but...
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I missed the MADD discussion . I have ridden several MADD, twin fins. My friend has two. I think this was a special board in the entire range of sizes.
Regards the drag, I made a Tabou Rocket into a 2+1, Tri fin, purpose sailing in shallow water, and rocky bottom. It works exceedingly well.
It's top speed is probably less than with a single( it doesn't matter to me) it planes slower with the 3 fins, but since I can start in less water depth, overall it is at least equal to get into the straps.
Twins are faster than a Tri fin, generally speaking. Lots of fins are available for this.
At this point in your adventure it's not critical to purchase a pair of fins that cost as much as the board did.
For the money this MADD is a home run.
Sail size... 6.0. 6.5 would be reasonable, both would at a later experience level still be used, 6.0 being pretty small. I would not start with a 8 something in size, the board will handle its largeness, not good for s start.
K4 will have some fins available in April that may be just the ticket.
They are a composite plastic and very reasonable in price.
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K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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What? 2 pages of interesting board chat from last summer? And then a 3rd page started yesterday? Am I reading these dates correctly, LOL
Anyway, if the original poster is still reading this, or other novices looking for info.
Here's my 2 cents -
I COMPLETELY agree with Isobars here.
| isobars wrote: | | 135L as the only board for a 190 pound beginner in winds averaging 10 mph ... 16 on unusually windy days? I just don't buy that. Wouldn't he get MUCH more TOW with MUCH more fun and thus MUCH more progress on fully 50% more volume ... another 100 liters if a narrow longboard? |
YES, he would get much more time sailing on a bigger board... and he'd go faster... and sail more distance in a given session... and learn more things, and have more fun.
I read he already bought the HiFly shortboard... which was a great deal, for a good board... that will be fun some day when he has skills... if he ever has WINDY days where he lives.
But for ALL the rest of the time, in his typical light wind, whether you're novice or advanced, you'll have more fun and sail more and faster and farther... on a big board.
There are lots of new current longboard choices, from Kona One's... Rio's... some Windsup's... and other's similar to these.
And there are many used inexpensive ($100-$400) longboards from the 90's that would be great. He's a 190lbs. so anything with 200L of vol and up would be great. And he'll never out-grow it.
IMHO,
Greg 
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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84 |
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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As the kona one is a long board, is it not too unstable and thin?
What size sail would I need for a kona one?
They are around $ 1500 new, which if they last then I guess it's OK.
Are they safe in higher winds given you can hit the board?
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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The Kona One is 70 cm wide, plenty wide enough. The board is completely covered with a soft deck. It is plenty thick compared to the SUP above it.
Coachg
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qwertyjjj
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Would a viper 80 (190litre) be OK as well?
I can't find kona one under $2000 in Canada 
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550
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| Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: |
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The Viper has 30 more liters and 10 cm more width than the Kona so it will be more stable. However its shorter length & greater width will make it not perform as well in slogging mode compared to the Kona.
Will it work for you right now? At your stage yes, the Viper will work probably better than the Kona. But for long term use it depends on your goals & where you plan to sail. Obviously you are in a very light wind place, the question is how large is your lake? If it is a small lake than the Viper will be fine as your only board, but if you will be sailing in a large body of water where you plan to explore in light wind than the Kona would be much better.
Coachg
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| gregnw44 wrote: | What? 2 pages of interesting board chat from last summer? And then a 3rd page started yesterday? Am I reading these dates correctly, LOL
Anyway, if the original poster is still reading this, or other novices looking for info.
Here's my 2 cents -
I COMPLETELY agree with Isobars here.
| isobars wrote: | | 135L as the only board for a 190 pound beginner in winds averaging 10 mph ... 16 on unusually windy days? I just don't buy that. Wouldn't he get MUCH more TOW with MUCH more fun and thus MUCH more progress on fully 50% more volume ... another 100 liters if a narrow longboard? |
YES, he would get much more time sailing on a bigger board... and he'd go faster... and sail more distance in a given session... and learn more things, and have more fun.
I read he already bought the HiFly shortboard... which was a great deal, for a good board... that will be fun some day when he has skills... if he ever has WINDY days where he lives.
But for ALL the rest of the time, in his typical light wind, whether you're novice or advanced, you'll have more fun and sail more and faster and farther... on a big board.
There are lots of new current longboard choices, from Kona One's... Rio's... some Windsup's... and other's similar to these.
And there are many used inexpensive ($100-$400) longboards from the 90's that would be great. He's a 190lbs. so anything with 200L of vol and up would be great. And he'll never out-grow it.
IMHO,
Greg |
Looks like someone else started it up, yes since last summer. I missed that part on the dates. Oh well....
_________________
K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
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gregnw44
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 783
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| qwertyjjj wrote: | As the kona one is a long board, is it not too unstable and thin?
What size sail would I need for a kona one?
They are around $ 1500 new, which if they last then I guess it's OK.
Are they safe in higher winds given you can hit the board? |
Longboards are very stable for you at 190#. WAY more stable than your 135L shortboard is.
* For you to balance on your 135L board in light wind, you will have to keep your feet right on the centerline of the board. With any good longboard (new or old) you will also keep your feet on or very near the centerline in light wind. However, you will have WAY more "margin of error" on a longboard over 200 L, compared to your 135L board.
When it's windier, and you're going faster... you can move your feet all over the place (and you will, for proper control) on either board. However, the much greater vol of a good longboard, will give you a smoother ride... and won't be as sensitive to poor foot placement. On your 135L board, you will still lose your balance and fall more in marginal planning and during tacks and jibes, compared to a good longboard (where you won't fall nearly as much).
* You can put any size sail you want on a Kona One or any good longboard over 200L... from 3M to 12 M.
* Are they safe when you fall on it? An interesting question, I'm not sure I've heard before. Well... it almost never happens. Of course, anything is possible... and yes, it could happen. But overall, you're going to hit the water WAY more... than hit the board.
G
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Greg
Longboarding since '81
Shortboarding since '84 |
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