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Who wants some swell surfing lessons in the Gorge?
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brettn



Joined: 22 Nov 2000
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Get Isobars thread digressions don't make for good reading, in my opinion. But I'm also completely against any kind of censorship, and most of what I write doesn't make for good reading either, so...carry on, I guess.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3879

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to the political thread if you want to see personal attacks. There are always folks the need to dominate discussions and others the feel compelled to make personal attacks, so what's new?

Here we have the opportunity to share information, ideas and opinions, and if we are confronted by posts that we find objectionable, silly, obnoxious, dumb, etc. - WE CAN SIMPLY IGNORE THE POST OR POSTER AND MOVE ON. Life is too short to blow a gasket on forums like this. I do it for fun, and knowledge, not to get pissed off.

I get called names on the political forum, but I don't reciprocate. Sometimes it's a challenge, but I figure one a-hole in a discussion is enough.

Opps, I may have just painted some folks with a broad brush, but you get the idea.
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surfersteve



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Biff, but your attempt to share some knowledge with a less-experienced sailor digressed. Apparently any altruistic effort can turn ugly on an IW forum. Too bad. You seem like a good guy with some relevant posts. I hope someone will take you up on your offer. Weird.... I didn't have to talk about myself or criticize anyone throughout this post.
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dhanson928



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Front foot in back foot out.. Reply with quote

...interesting rap here, despite the "snark"....

I've noticed my two 'main' boards (right now) call for different techniques. (depending on the swell configuration and thousands of other variables)
My older OO 'windy' total-sinker board does NOT like to have my weight anywhere forward except when I'm 'driving it" into a high-G carved turn...and it's somewhat prone to pearling....So that one, I often leave my rear foot in during swell riding......Coming down into a trough with that board requires some care and most of my weight right on the tail, for sure...but it slashes nicely off the tail and you can pop onto a plane quickly with a pump or two of the rig and by putting your hips forward and weight onto the front foot. It also hangs into the water during a carved turn as good as any board I've ever tried....but don't forget to get off the front as you hit the trough!....
My 'other' board ( I am currently packing around 2) an older RRD Wave One with that ugly square nose re-shaped, it likes some front foot later in the turning sequence....I often find myself tooling along downwind with both feet ahead of their straps....it turns fine from the center...and I can just barely slog it home if there is enough wind to water start... It "swims" nicely, too...javascript:emoticon('Cool')

So two boards and two quite different sailing techniques here in the Gorge swells.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize for my snarkiness. Back to the topic of surfing swell. IMO the first sailing skill to learn to start surfing swell is sailing clew first. It`s a lot easier and more powered up to sail off the wind ,down a swell clew first than mast first. And is the first step in linking turns without flipping the sail. The problem with many intermediate sailors in the Gorge (and I know this steps on a lot of toes) is that they learn to jibe flipping the sail first and can`t break that habit and hence never get the feeling of clew first sailing. If you want to learn clewfirst sailing it`s easiest on a floaty board in sub planing winds.
I do have a serious, not intended to be snarky question for isobars. In a separate thread could you explain how to make one of those "killfiles" so a specific person`s posts are automatically deleted? Thanks.
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dhanson928



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: swells-waves Reply with quote

Swells are different than waves....Selecting the best swell to play on takes some practice...just seeing a nice sharp crest moving along upstream and going..."There!...There's One!" and cranking a turn onto it's front slope can often leave you standing there, in a short time, with a sunken tail and no available wind or 'downhill' drive as that swell flattens out and re-forms with the one 'behind it.... Swells last for a finite time, then they "progress" backwards to the next swell...Hard to express that clearly.... Often the best ride comes after a couple of good looking swells .... Waves, now.... they are fairly straight forward to choose...They form, they break and they hit shore or deep water again...What you see is what you ride....
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20085

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philodog wrote:
I apologize for my snarkiness.

I'll accept that.

philodog wrote:
Back to the topic of surfing swell. IMO the first sailing skill to learn to start surfing swell is sailing clew first. It`s a lot easier and more powered up to sail off the wind ,down a swell clew first than mast first. And is the first step in linking turns without flipping the sail. The problem with many intermediate sailors in the Gorge (and I know this steps on a lot of toes) is that they learn to jibe flipping the sail first and can`t break that habit and hence never get the feeling of clew first sailing. If you want to learn clewfirst sailing it`s easiest on a floaty board in sub planing winds.

Useful advice, and I was only just beginning to think that solution through. My primary concern with it is the powered-up switchstance sailing involved; it puts my ankles and knees on red alert and thus puts my sailing on defense rather than offense.

philodog wrote:
In a separate thread could you explain how to make one of those "killfiles" so a specific person`s posts are automatically deleted? Thanks.

Valid question repeatedly asked, certainly nothing personal, and yes, I could, but, no, I won't ... yet. And any such thread would turn into just another one-way slingfest anyway, so why bother?

It took me weeks to months to figure it out and set it up, and everyone here has the same opportunity as (and usually more computer savvy than) I. I won't make it that easy for others, especially for those who create the very problem it's intended to stop: baseless personal attacks. People who do that regularly don't deserve breaks, IMO, and if I tell even only the nicest guys here, it will get around.

I came here because iW claimed the forum was moderated, with particular emphasis on baseless personal attacks. They also said years ago they would establish a killfile feature, and asked me if I wanted to become a moderator. It quickly became obvious, though, and they finally admitted, that their claimed concern for forum decorum was overridden by their primary concern -- revenue -- which they also repeatedly admitted was enhanced (at significant cost to my well-being) by allowing these attacks. I thus took the steps necessary to clean the cesspool at my end so I can continue my second-most-favorite hobby: discussing WSing with rational adults. I long ago gave up believing peer pressure would solve the problem, as that requires both willingness to speak out (as some admirable people have done) on one end and morals at the other.

I thus have zero respect for the company, so I'm also not making it any easier for them, either. Since iW/Weatherflow will not do the right thing for YOUR/OUR forumís behavior, I'll continue to solve my problem at and from my end.

No choice in life is painless. We gotta drive, rig, and risk getting skunked in order to WS, and we gotta endure asses online. Each of us must decide for himself where our go or no-go decision thresholds lie. Occasionally missing some wind and occasionally missing some useful ideas are prices I accept to reduce the skunks and the vitriol.
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philodog



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" My primary concern with it is the powered-up switchstance sailing involved"

There is no switchstance involved; carve, switch your feet and don`t flip the sail. Now you are sailing clew first. Two tips for clew first sailing are you can only do it comfortably on a broad reach or broader (it doesnt work well going upwind) and your hands need to be further back on the boom than normal. Subplaning conditions and a floaty board are best for getting the feel of it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20085

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: swells-waves Reply with quote

dhanson928 wrote:
Selecting the best swell to play on takes some practice...just seeing a nice sharp crest moving along upstream and going..."There!...There's One!" and cranking a turn onto it's front slope can often leave you standing there, in a short time, with a sunken tail and no available wind or 'downhill' drive as that swell flattens out and re-forms with the one 'behind it. ....What you see is what you ride....

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Your comments in another thread expressing awe at people who plane sailing straight downwind and your comments here suggest you're one of those "efficient" WSers who rigs as small as he can and relies on skill and gusts for most of your planing. That works on big swell or waves, but leaves us "standing there, in a short time, with a sunken tail and no available wind" on lesser slopes. I know that feeling well, and it's just one of many reasons I prefer to rig bigger ... often much bigger. That allows us to turn dead downwind and keep planing at least for a while even on imaginary swells just calf high if that's all we have to work with. That 6.0 session of mid-20s we had from 5 to 8 PM Friday evening was an excellent example, with some actual swell thrown in as a bonus. Once it filled in past 6, it was just slash'n'run from shore to shore on most runs; no swell-picking required except during the lulls. What I saw, I rode, for hours ... hooked in. Even then, however, I didn't blast off downwind for distance simply because it was getting late, I didn't trust the wind, and I was alone much of the time.

So my Tip One for ripping downwind is Rig Big. Extreme example: I was consistently well powered with a 3.7 on a 65L sinker off Wells Island one fine day when a bunch of slalom racers came through heading downwind toward the Event Site, having no problem planing downwind. They were on 6.5s, more or less.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20085

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philodog wrote:
" My primary concern with it is the powered-up switchstance sailing involved"

There is no switchstance involved; carve, switch your feet and don`t flip the sail. Now you are sailing clew first.

Yes, but then our feet are all wrong for the next tack (the next time our board changes sides relative to the wind), and I often do that more than once per second when playing powered-up on busy or disorganized swell ... much like playing Craig's videos on Fast Forward. That doesn't allow time for changing feet and grip, let alone jibing the sail.

philodog wrote:
Two tips for clew first sailing are you can only do it comfortably on a broad reach or broader (it doesnt work well going upwind) and your hands need to be further back on the boom than normal.

I've been working on that, especially when blasting downwind tightroping between too much power and not enough and/or just working the terrain.

philodog wrote:
Subplaning conditions and a floaty board are best for getting the feel of it.

Sound advice for most people, but that requires balance ... not my strong suit. Without a handful of power and a planing platform, it's all -- often more -- than I can do just to stay upright.

Thanks for the tips and techniques.
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