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biffmalibu
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 556
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 Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Great Gorge surf videos. Unhooked. Good use of sail power and footwork to stay in sweet spots on the swell. Thank you! |
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Bond1
Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Jibing both the board and the sail in the swell is one way to do it, but you get about half as many turns that way because it eats up so much time and water. |
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gorgesurfshop
Joined: 25 May 1999
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| OK time for the next question. Back foot in or out of the strap when swell riding? |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Like almost everything else in this sport: personal preference based on many criteria. |
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philodog
Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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isobars
A. Backside=heelside=regular sailing position=lawnmower
B. "...running before the wind -- the topic of this thread" No, the subject is swell riding (see title of post). Big difference.
"the only time I always unhook is when significantly switchstance and powered up; that feels risky" If you were actually 'significantly switchstance' that`s called toeside and your hook would be facing away from your harness lines making it pretty hard to hook in.
C. "I do more slashing/off-the-lips/cutbacks on the faces/bottom turns/running downwind hooked in than I see anyone else doing hooked OR unhooked where I usually sail"
Wow, what a statement! You must have a secret spot that only beginners know about that has the vertical waves needed for these maneuvers . Please tell us where this wave garden is. PS You cannot do a REAL off the lip, cutback or bottom turn hooked in. I hate to tell you this but you only think you`re surfing swell. You`re not. |
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kevinkan
Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1661
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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it's definitely possible and sometimes preferable to sail switch and hooked in... I do it all the time to give my arms a break and pick up speed while doing tricks in the swell.. and yes it's also risky... especially when you spin out
as far as back foot in or out, i usually have both feet in the straps and as far over the centerline as possible, but sometimes it's beneficial to get one or both feet out and step way forward to trim the board and surf swells.
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Kevin Kan
Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
http://www.sunsetsailboards.com
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philodog
Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| One foot in, one foot out is an invitation for a twisted /broken lower extremity IMO. My knee is still sore a year after one foot came out and one stayed in on a wipeout. Less maneuverability too. Now both feet out, going toeside down a swell and just the front hand holding the mast is just too much fun! |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| philodog wrote: | isobars
A. Backside=heelside=regular sailing position=lawnmower
B. "...running before the wind -- the topic of this thread" No, the subject is swell riding (see title of post). Big difference.
"the only time I always unhook is when significantly switchstance and powered up; that feels risky" If you were actually 'significantly switchstance' that`s called toeside and your hook would be facing away from your harness lines making it pretty hard to hook in.
C. "I do more slashing/off-the-lips/cutbacks on the faces/bottom turns/running downwind hooked in than I see anyone else doing hooked OR unhooked where I usually sail"
Wow, what a statement! You must have a secret spot that only beginners know about that has the vertical waves needed for these maneuvers . Please tell us where this wave garden is. PS You cannot do a REAL off the lip, cutback or bottom turn hooked in. I hate to tell you this but you only think you`re surfing swell. You`re not. |
A. We apparently have different understandings of lawnmowing. To me, it means beam reaches connected by U-turns. One could mow the lawn switchstanced, hooked or unhooked, face or back to the sail, inside or outside the boom, standing on one's head or feet, etc. OTOH, I don't consider lawnmowing to include sailing backside if the point of sail is ranging from downwind to maximum pinching, even if it's all heels towards the wind.
B. The video illustrating the thread shows running before the wind, as evidenced by the foam blowing downwind/dead ahead in streaks. Whether and how much one deviates from that path and whether he must derive power from the swell (which may affect the terminology) depends on many factors.
Again, our terminology differs. Switchstance, to me, means sailing with both feet in the wrong straps, such as when we jibe the board without removing our feet from their straps. IOW, our board is headin' north after a jibe but our strapped-in feet didn't get the memo. Whether we've jibed the rig is moot, but we're still facing it .... not back to the boom.
(?)
C. As for " PS You cannot do a REAL off the lip, cutback or bottom turn hooked in." ... DAMN, but I wish people would tell me these things before I waste my time doing them almost every reach for decades. Again, we apparently differ in semantics. To me:
OTL = ya sail up into the crest of a hump of water (it's moot in this case whether it's a 50-foot side-off breaking wave or a pronounced onshore waist-high swell), bury your lee rail dramatically with lots of power, change direction virtually instantly to fly over (aerial OTL) or sail down the face. IOW, ya bounces off the lip. The sail-handling differs between side-off and onshore conditions, and the degree varies with conditions and skill, but in moderate onshore conditions, like windy days in the Gorge's tame non-breaking conditions, doing it hooked in is easy ... with a roller bar.
Cutback = ya don't wait for the lip; you carve back down below it to escape a closing out breaking wave or for the hell of it in non-breaking conditions. Again -- onshore + roller bar = easy peasy. Big side-off breakers ... fugheddaboutdahook.
Bottom turn = ya carve back uphill at the bottom of the face. Onshore, where each face meets the back of the preceding swell, the bottom turn could be assisted by that preceding back. Rig handling is vastly different between side-of and onshore conditions, but in the latter it involves primarily sheeting WAY out (as opposed to side-off's laydown towards the face) and carving back up the face towards the next lip, so doing it hooked in is simple ... with a roller bar.
Given those broad definitions, my "C" statement is simply an observation, reinforced my many other sailors' comments. Just because rebounding from the crest of a non-breaking wave is not as spectacular as rebounding off the underside of a 20-foot closing face doesn't change its meaning, and one word still beats two paragraphs if it gets the meaning across.
In its most general sense, "surfing the swell" implies one is using, rather than blindly bombing across the swell in a straight line ... mowing the lawn. More specifically, to me, "surfing swell" implies doing the best imitation we can of DTL side-off wavesailing when dealt onshore conditions ... as in the Gorge. It can include depowering the rig and using the slope for (gravity) power, and it can include keeping the hammer down to aid or even replace the power of the swell.
How do YOU define, "surfing the swell"? |
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philodog
Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I`m out. That concrete wall against reality another poster mentioned is impenetrable |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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These aren't snide remarks; they are sincere laments:
Sounds like your objective is disparaging rather rather than educating me. That's too bad, as your certainty implied I might learn something from you. It's disappointing to us knowledge hounds to see the world decaying into a place where people aren't willing to suffer anything longer than tweets. I wonder how knowledge will be imparted in the near, let alone distant, future. Injection, I suppose, with no educational discussion or debate allowed.
Given the lack of any explanation of why we can't or shouldn't do certain things on WSers, plus confirmation from others (even in this thread) that we sure as heck can, I have no choice but to go on having fun doing the impossible. I wonder, though, how long the sport will last once the last WSer buys into the unimaginative my-way-or-the highway paradigm.
Apparently the only thing we agree on is the danger of extensive bump/wave/swell sailing with only the back foot out. Besides, how does one slash rights and/or lefts in extremely quick, unplanned, spontaneous, terrain-following succession, whether it's for fun or to evade objects/falling sailors/other idiots sailing the same way, besides with heel'n'toe pressure IN that back strap? |
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