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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2189

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"How can those who have not committed themselves to learning windsurfing techniques with quality instruction and without judge whether one is more satisfying?"

You really do refuse to accept the obvious, which I take as an insult. FOR ME (REPEAT ME - not talking about others) I know my own character. I am a loner, and (as Chandler says) Hate being organised, instructed, taught, or whatever, (As an adult who knows his own mind, not as a pupil at school, obviously.)

As far as possible I do things my own way, and that is where my satisfaction in life (most of the 77 years of it) has come from. Awkward, yes. Arrogant, perhaps. but reaching a form of contentment, YES!

Of course my technique could be better with instruction, but you persist in missing the point. My technique is all I need to do what I need to do for windsurfing satisfaction, and has NEVER been an end in itself. I don't want to be a' hot shot',

So stop telling me that I may have got it all wrong through ignorance. (that IS what you are doing), because I am mostly satisfied with the way my life has gone so far! (Regrets, obviously, but in the words of the song - I did it my way.)
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1697

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a good post. I think it dovetails well into the conversation.

1. You're 77 years old. Certainly of an age at which you should do whatever the hell you like. You want contentment and you've found it. That's great!

2. You "Hate being organised, instructed, taught, or whatever".

3. You believe that you know your own character to a degree that it's not possible that you could be surprised.

I take seriously your statement that you take the argument being made to you as insulting. I hope you take me seriously when I say that I take exception to someone who has never had a specific experience arguing against people who have had the experience. I can't say I'm insulted because you admit to never having actually tried that which you "know" you would find less satisfying.

I don't think anyone in this thread has criticized your technique or suggested that you needed to improve. If you're still on the water at 77, you've already won in my book.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic has reminded me that at 62, and having played golf for over 40 years, and very competitively for a good many of those years, it's time to take a lesson or two again.

I think self-discovery is wonderful; in both golf and windsurfing I have learned many lessons on my own.

but, sometimes a second set of eyes can be helpful. Tapping into someone else's experience, when that person is as experienced or more experienced, can be damn helpful.

I bet that even the great Ben Hogan got a little help along the way from Jimmy Demaret, Henry Picard, and a couple others. And, they say he had sections of Percy Boomer's book dog-eared and underlined.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2189

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear your view gvogelsang.

Many activities are learnt through group participation, and copying what works. Competition is indeed a spur (racing-surfing etc) and we see in windsurfing, and absorb, what everyone else is doing - unless they are making a hash of it, so in that way we are all 'instructed'. But it can be a long drawn out process, which can stall.

Hope you quickly (time marching on, and all that) reach the higher level you wish for which will satisfy your expectations, with some instruction, and stay with the sport for the duration!
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3113

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the wonderful things about windsurfing is that it can be a very individualized sport (when, where, how - all on your own), or it can be community activity shared with your buddies, assisting one another with all sorts of shared information about gear, rigging and technique.

You do what works best for you, there is no right or wrong way. Of course, others will have opinions as we have seen here, and that is fine, but when all is said and done, we then choose how we want to proceed, and it will be the right way even if others disagree.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, windsurfing is not only a sport, but also a giant puzzle. As a physics engineer, I find the very complex interaction of forces involved quite intriguing.

So like any puzzle, solving the problem can be quite fun and satisfying. And if I'm told how to solve the puzzle, the fun goes away...

What one needs to do is to figure out the best way to reach his goals. If your goal is to perform an action, you should take lessons. In the 80's, I wanted to uphaul and was quite frustrated while spending a full day at it. Lessons would have made me perform it faster with a smile.

If your goal is to understand how and even why an action works, it may be better to self teach yourself, hopefully with outside pointers. Couple of years ago, I wanted to FIGURE OUT how to waterstart. I used pointers from the web and DVDs but figured out key points by myself and it was quite satisfying too. For sure, a much longer process than taking lessons.

For planing gybes, I'm on the fence. I've been slowly at it for a few years. I've put more effort last year without big progress. I realized that conditions here are difficult after a trip to Florida. I sailed there for only maybe 2 hours and performed probably my 3rd planing gybe in career after a 5 months sailing hiatus due to winter here. It was also with a large cammed RS:X sail! Still by far the easiest conditions I've experienced: very constant wind, sea water and no chop. Next time I travel to an easy sailing location, I will probably take lessons in order to build muscle memory!
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1697

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:
To me, windsurfing is not only a sport, but also a giant puzzle. As a physics engineer, I find the very complex interaction of forces involved quite intriguing.

So like any puzzle, solving the problem can be quite fun and satisfying. And if I'm told how to solve the puzzle, the fun goes away...


You would like nonplaning freestyle. The number of variables (nose first or fin first, mast first or clew first, facing the sail or back to the sail, regular or backwinded etc and combinations of all of the above) can give you many levels of complication to solve.

Resolving a blown waterstart by pushing through to clewfirst/fin first, then sheeting from stalled to full power, is a project all by itself. And believe it or not, having an instructor map out the path for you is nothing compared to what it will demand of you to execute. Try ducktacking too while you're at it. It makes learning to drive stick shift seem like chewing gum.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder wrote:
As a physics engineer...



please explain what that is, thank you.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a bad translation? I graduated in Engineering Physics, in my case to work in the optical sciences field. We did a lot of physics and maths, mixed with electric, electronics, software and mechanical engineering. We're mostly a bunch of nerds who like applied stuff!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18602

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same ballpark as my Engineering Science curricula. A wide variety of engineering applications with heavy emphasis on their underlying math and physics. Much of it is applicable to windsurfing, and was useful when learning most WSing in a lesson vacuum. Good lessons would have saved me years of frustration, but if they led me to the position that many here have ("there's only one right way to do each thing"), I could still be stuck in Step Jibe Hell and/or nursing crippled arches. Maybe I came out ahead.
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