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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I clearly prefer learning at my own pace in a more private way. Often, it's easier and more satisfying when it happens that way, even if it takes more time.


Completely untrue, and spoken in ignorance. It is neither easier nor more satisfying. The "satisfaction" notion floated by non-instruction people is wishful thinking.

Your issue is money. You either don't have or choose not to budget to improve your windsurfing experience through lessons. That's a legitimate choice. But then suggesting that not taking lessons offers anything that taking lessons does not...that's nonsense. There's a reason people who take lessons say things like it's "a bargain that they would do again" or "the best money spent on windsurfing" etc. It's because they've learned that lessons are worth more than a new sail or a new board. That the experience of windsurfing better is worth more than more windsurfing stuff.

I used to be of the "I'd rather buy stuff than lessons" camp. But after five years of self-taught/friends taught/videos studied windsurfing I broke down and took a clinic. That was an amazing experience, once I got over how much of my self-taught technique was holding me back from being better at what I could do and learning to do things I couldn't do.

Is there honor in teaching yourself? Of course there is. Is there any less honor in taking lessons? Of course not. Those are people who are putting their money where their mouths are. They like windsurfing so much they'll part with money to get better at it. Their commitment is greater.

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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! I was going to post another reply but I can not speak any better than your last. (PeconicPuffin). Well stated.
I am also and avid golfer. I find it a great complement to my windsurfing trips. I also find it much easier to learn and get pretty good at than windsurfing. I took lessons to make my progression faster and more enjoy able. Like windsurfing, teaching yourself bad habits only makes it more difficult to learn the right way. Not many good golfer's are self taught. Many are willing to spend up wards for 500 bucks for a new driver to fix their swing. It doesn't help. A package of lessons from a teaching pro (300 bucks) will make that old club work just great. Make life easy on yourself and learn the right way....
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The 'satisfaction' notion floated by non instruction people is wishful thinking."

Don't lecture me, or others of like mind, on what you are clearly unable to understand, or that which seems to lie beyond your' tram line' vision and philosophy of life.

It is beyond your level of competence to try and assign 'failure' in life's pursuits to those of us who dance to a very different drummer!
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
swchandler wrote:
I clearly prefer learning at my own pace in a more private way. Often, it's easier and more satisfying when it happens that way, even if it takes more time.


Completely untrue, and spoken in ignorance. It is neither easier nor more satisfying. The "satisfaction" notion floated by non-instruction people is wishful thinking.


Wow, nothing like someone else telling you what is and is not satisfying - TO YOU.

I personally have had 1 "lesson" in my 20 years of windsurfing. That lesson consisted of about 3 minutes of instruction and then going for it. The true lessons have been from the decades of sailing and windsurfing experience I have gained by simply going out there and doing it - immersing myself in the lifestyle.

Some of us do not need to be spoon fed through lessons and take pride and satisfaction in the fact that we have gotten where we are from the grind - earning it through time on the water.

Maybe someone should ask Robby Naish if he thinks he would feel more satisfied with his windsurfing if he had taken lessons....

sm
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you ... or I ... or anyone else here have the innate skills Robby has in his little finger? I vote for all the (good) lessons one can find. Maybe if they had been available on the mainland or Maui back when I was figuring this crap out, I'd have saved myself a decade of frustration in trying to figure out jibing, stance, rigging, carrying my gear across windy sand dunes, getting back upwind in a strong coastal rip current, and the other 15-10 skills I tried to buy lessons for -- at any price; I'd have GLADLY paid thousands -- in the '80s. Just think how many people each of us has seen quit the sport altogether because it's so challenging! Good lessons can change all that.

THE key to freeedom in WSing is the waterstart. Self-taught: years. Lessons: hours.

The first flashy triumph is planing jibes. Self-taught: 5-10 years if persistent. Lessons: days to weeks.

Get lessons, or at the absolute minimum, every instructional video you can find.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

THE key to freeedom in WSing is the waterstart. Self-taught: years. Lessons: hours.

The first flashy triumph is planing jibes. Self-taught: 5-10 years if persistent. Lessons: days to weeks.

Get lessons, or at the absolute minimum, every instructional video you can find.


This may have been the learning curve for YOU. It certainly was not the learning curve for ME.

For the record, I have no problem with people taking lessons or recommending that other people take lessons. It is a valid way to learn.

What I take issue with is someone saying that you can not have a satisfying experience in windsurfing without taking lessons.

sm
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4166

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the whole point here, is that for most windsurfers, lessons will speed up the learning curve and most likely, minimize the inevitable frustrations.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding GURGLETROUSERS " Don't lecture me, or others of like mind, on what you are clearly unable to understand, or that which seems to lie beyond your' tram line' vision and philosophy of life. It is beyond your level of competence to try and assign 'failure' in life's pursuits to those of us who dance to a very different drummer!"

And Bred2shred's "Wow, nothing like someone else telling you what is and is not satisfying - TO YOU. "

But that's what you guys are doing: Saying that being self-taught is more satisfying.

And Gurgletrousers...when did I assign failure?

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVAAN wrote:

I am also and avid golfer. I find it a great complement to my windsurfing trips.


A friend of mine who was trying to draw me into golf said "it's just like windsurfing: Lots of equipment, lots of humiliation!"

Loved that! Also took golf lessons. Even play every once in awhile, though for me being near the ocean, on windless days we look for manageable waves to SUPsurf.

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bred2shred"
For the record, I have no problem with people taking lessons or recommending that other people take lessons. It is a valid way to learn.

What I take issue with is someone saying that you can not have a satisfying experience in windsurfing without taking lessons.
[/quote]

That's not what said (otherwise I'd agree with you and apologize). I'm saying that the statement "learning without taking lessons is more satisfying" (or words to that effect) are nonsense.

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