Ezzy Lion vs Retro

rangerider · Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 206

If you are going to get an Ultrasonic then also get the 9.5 (I have the Lion) it is a great match for the board - so far it is my favorite combo that I own when the conditions are right. The Ultrasonic will certainly work in higher winds and smaller sails but it is awesome when the wind is enough to plane with the 9.5 but low enough that the chop is minimal.

I also use the 9.5 with my Exocet windSup 11'8" but it feels big and I prefer smaller (7.5) although this raises the wind minimum for planing obviously. I have never tried the retro but it looks like a great sail as well.

As far as rigging the lion goes - I don't follow David's video although I'm sure he knows what he's doing as he designed the sail obviously - I just run my mast through the cambers and downhaul - the only reason I can think of not to do this is that David's method bends the batten less and probably makes braking a batten less likely (not sure if it ever happens). Bottom line for me is that I rig the Lion the same way and in the same time as a camless sail.

c3m4 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 5

Thanks - that helps.
Sailboarder - There are two reasons why I don't think I want a race board sail (even though they would meet my range requirements). 1) I would like a sail that I could use for a free ride or "free formula" type board if I go that route in the future and 2) The Severne 9.5 rigs on a 530 mast, while the 8.5 rigs on a 490 mast - so that kind of locks me in - with the Retro/Lion I could rig both an 8.5 and 9.5 on the same mast (not that I want two sails, but I really don't want to be boxed in). Also, I'm not looking for sub 10kt range.

Joe - thanks, your blog has been very helpful as I've been kicking around options. I have a short board too and smaller sails, but I still like the idea of doing some upwind/downwind exploring where the wind speed could change rather dramatically while you're out. Ideally i'd like to try a Phantom 320, but for now I need a cheap, old longboard. Do you feel the non-cam sails suffer in pointing ability at all?

rhorton1 - how much wind can your 9.5 Lion take, and how much do you weigh? (if you don't mind my asking)

adywind - yes, adjustable outhaul was on my list

gvogelsang · Joined: 09 Nov 1988 Posts: 435

Just to throw a wrench into your monkey, I use an Ezzy Zephyr on a Formula board and it works fine. It would be a very simple sail to use on an Ultrasonic, with good low end. It would not have the upper end range of a Lion. It probably has better low end grunt than a 7.5 Lion, but not as much as an 8.5 Lion.

It is a pretty nice light wind sail when bagged out. I have also used it to plane on my Firemove 122.

rhorton1 · Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 88

Sailboarder · Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656

Sailboarder · Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656

coachg · Joined: 10 Sep 2000 Posts: 3550

When pinching up wind the AO trims the sail to the new apparent wind so I guess it could be considered reducing drag? When pinching close to the wind a cam sail will keep it's leading edge while an RAF sail's leading edge will start to flatten. When the leading edge flattens the COE moves forward a lot, which is why I prefer cam sails for upwind sailing as it requires less work.

Coachg

konajoe · Joined: 28 Feb 2010 Posts: 517

I've been a 1 board, 1 sail person for a long time. Love it! I spent alot of time on the Mistral one Design, then Prodigy, and now Kona. The MOD and Prodigy rigs were cammed. The Kona rig isn't. The cammed rigs handled 0-25 range better. Two extra minutes of rigging for more enjoyment during 2 hours of sailing isn't much of a sacrifice.

Very few modern sails are designed for sub-planing conditions. When racing upwind in sub-planing conditions, sails that were not designed for those conditions suffer. But you're not racing.

Cam sails have a smoother leading edge than a non-cammed sail. Non-cammed sails have a dead area immediately behind the mast, and are more prone to stalling. But, you're not racing.

On a different note, the Equipe and Ultra Cat ARE longboards. Unless the terminology has changed, hybrids are boards designed to work like longboards in sub-planing conditions and formula boards in higher wind. They have the same outline, from above, as a formula board, except they have a centerboard. The prodigy is an example.

Sailboarder · Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656

cgoudie1 · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject:

Personally, I'd get a Retro, but then I'm biased, because I have some (5.5, 6.5, 9.5). tractor like pull in marginal conditions, and they can be ridden into winds that other people would be rigging at least a meter smaller, plus
I find them much more pleasant and forgiving in transitions than cambered sails. I've ridden Ezzys , but never a lion (or any Ezzy bigger than a 5.5).

.02

-Craig