How much have sails improved over the past 10 years?

jingebritsen · Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371

14 with a large free ride or windsup 11'8" . yes with pumping too.

12 with the 9.0 what difference is that 2 mph for the extra square meters? in florida about 50% more time on the water. reality, sure does suck, doesn't it?

justall · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 442

alap · Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 156

i change my Retros about three years ago, after my first set started to disintegrate after 10 years... (so I had one of the first Retros quiver, around 2000). Very nice!

The bigger the sail obviously the more difference you notice.

My biggest now is 8.5 It has almost as much power as an older 10.0 (~2005)
but much easier to manage (10 was killing me just to go over the rocky launch). So this 10.0 rig I wasn't using much... and I sold it (this was the only sail in descent shape, because of relatively light use). This 8.5 Retro I use with 130 Ray, 145 Ray and FreeFormula.

quiver or not... I have Retro 8.5 7.0 6.0 5.0 and 4.5
Probably could go away with just three sails and adjust tuning based on condition... but why? its like winter tires or all season.... how many screwdrivers you have?
Razz

GURGLETROUSERS · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643

Yes, it's always puzzled me as to why people wish to minimise the range of sail sizes in their quiver? However good and wide ranging a sail may be, it will not be most comfortable or most efficient at the extremes (often optimistic) of its wind range. It's always nicer to have a sail working well within its sweet spot.

Also, having a full range of good sails (4.0/4.5/5.0/5.5/6.0/7.0/8.0 for example) means each individual sail gets less wear and tear (especially when not way over downhauled and flapping in overpowering conditions, just because it can handle it) as the work load on each is less, and they last longer. The cost therefore is probably no greater than intensively using fewer sails, and having to replace them more often.

Of course, that's all based on the belief that sails are NOT continually improving year on year = and that we don't believe in miracles!! Wink

joepring · Joined: 03 Jul 2014 Posts: 5

Part of the issue for me is I don't have much cargo space and live 1-2 hours from the water and I'd prefer to schlep 1 board and 2-3 sails that I'm confident can cover a range of conditions for the day. Also it was hard enough convincing my wife that I need 2 boards and 3 sails...I might be able to fly under the radar upgrading them but if I all the sudden had 6 sails there would be repercussions.

fxop · Joined: 13 Jun 1998 Posts: 202

dllee · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay

Range of old sails... pre 1991. Plenty of guys back then, guys who can jibe 100%, jump in flat water, and sail anywhere in the world, used ONE main sail, then one other small sail maybe 20% of the time.
You make do with what you have.
Me, I carry in the van, a 5.5 3 cam, 5.7 no cam, 5.8 3 cam, and 6.0 3 cam. Plus a whole lot more different sizes, ,up and down.
Wouldn't matter if it was 2014 sails or 1995 sails.
EVERY sail ever made was responsive to tuning, but you can bet, to expect the best performance out of a sail, it needed to be tuned within it's range.
What would I know? I"ve only worked at windsurf shops selling sails for 24 years.

dllee · Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay

Yes, the theorom can be correct, especially if you're a newbie and don't know the area you are windsurfing at.
If you're an expert, lots of sails allow you to pick your needs for the day. For instance, if sailors in the water are all racer's, you'd pick your faster gear. If sailors in the water are doing freestyle, you can pick slower gear.
And some days, you feel like cruising, while other's, you feel like being the fastest on the water.
Options. Do you want more options in life? Or do you want to be stuck where you are?

fxop · Joined: 13 Jun 1998 Posts: 202

The theorem about having more gear not leading to more being dialed in is a little tongue in cheek, but I sometimes miss the days when all I had was a 5.0 for the Bay and I seemed to be perfect most of the time.

Now that I have a quiver, there are a lot of days when I rig, go out, not happy, re-rig, and then realize if only I'd hung on a few more mins it would have been perfect.

Now that I'm a geezer if I rig wrong at the coast I'm usually too tired to change it.

Or as Josh Stone said to me once, "Here in Maui don't even think, just rig 4.7!"

boardsurfr · Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266

Closely spaced sails can be great if you're lucky enough to pick the right sail when rigging. But they also can lead to the wrong state of mind - "my 6.0 feels big, I should go and rig my 5.5". The result is often more time spent rigging, and less time on the water. If you instead learn to sail way overpowered (speed and racing are great for that), and underpowered (freestyle can help here), you'll have more time and fun on the water. You'll also worry less about the wind going up or down.

Instead of spacing the sails closely, we have some sail sizes twice. The 5.0 freestyle sail comes out at 22 mph (or 17 mph if my lovely wife sails it); the 5.0 speed sail at 33 mph. Unfortunately, the 5.0 speed sail does not get much use.