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How much have sails improved over the past 10 years?
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3307

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

14 with a large free ride or windsup 11'8" . yes with pumping too.

12 with the 9.0 what difference is that 2 mph for the extra square meters? in florida about 50% more time on the water. reality, sure does suck, doesn't it?

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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
14 with a large free ride or windsup 11'8" . yes with pumping too.

12 with the 9.0 what difference is that 2 mph for the extra square meters? in florida about 50% more time on the water. reality, sure does suck, doesn't it?


Yeah, that is my threshold, too, for a 7.5m, as long as I have 14 mph or more. So, my older 7.5 is probably doing just fine. It seems like it is very often just a knot or two below 14 here, too, but I just haven't been able to convince myself to buy the new boom, mast and sail to go to 9.0 (I head to the local ice rink for a stick and shoot session instead).
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i change my Retros about three years ago, after my first set started to disintegrate after 10 years... (so I had one of the first Retros quiver, around 2000). Very nice!

The bigger the sail obviously the more difference you notice.

My biggest now is 8.5 It has almost as much power as an older 10.0 (~2005)
but much easier to manage (10 was killing me just to go over the rocky launch). So this 10.0 rig I wasn't using much... and I sold it (this was the only sail in descent shape, because of relatively light use). This 8.5 Retro I use with 130 Ray, 145 Ray and FreeFormula.

quiver or not... I have Retro 8.5 7.0 6.0 5.0 and 4.5
Probably could go away with just three sails and adjust tuning based on condition... but why? its like winter tires or all season.... how many screwdrivers you have?
Razz
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2320

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's always puzzled me as to why people wish to minimise the range of sail sizes in their quiver? However good and wide ranging a sail may be, it will not be most comfortable or most efficient at the extremes (often optimistic) of its wind range. It's always nicer to have a sail working well within its sweet spot.

Also, having a full range of good sails (4.0/4.5/5.0/5.5/6.0/7.0/8.0 for example) means each individual sail gets less wear and tear (especially when not way over downhauled and flapping in overpowering conditions, just because it can handle it) as the work load on each is less, and they last longer. The cost therefore is probably no greater than intensively using fewer sails, and having to replace them more often.

Of course, that's all based on the belief that sails are NOT continually improving year on year = and that we don't believe in miracles!! Wink Laughing
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joepring



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the issue for me is I don't have much cargo space and live 1-2 hours from the water and I'd prefer to schlep 1 board and 2-3 sails that I'm confident can cover a range of conditions for the day. Also it was hard enough convincing my wife that I need 2 boards and 3 sails...I might be able to fly under the radar upgrading them but if I all the sudden had 6 sails there would be repercussions.
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:

Also, having a full range of good sails (4.0/4.5/5.0/5.5/6.0/7.0/8.0 for example) means each individual sail gets less wear and tear


fxop's Theorem: "The more gear you have the less likely you are to be correctly rigged at any point in time."
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4555
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Range of old sails... pre 1991. Plenty of guys back then, guys who can jibe 100%, jump in flat water, and sail anywhere in the world, used ONE main sail, then one other small sail maybe 20% of the time.
You make do with what you have.
Me, I carry in the van, a 5.5 3 cam, 5.7 no cam, 5.8 3 cam, and 6.0 3 cam. Plus a whole lot more different sizes, ,up and down.
Wouldn't matter if it was 2014 sails or 1995 sails.
EVERY sail ever made was responsive to tuning, but you can bet, to expect the best performance out of a sail, it needed to be tuned within it's range.
What would I know? I"ve only worked at windsurf shops selling sails for 24 years.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4555
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the theorom can be correct, especially if you're a newbie and don't know the area you are windsurfing at.
If you're an expert, lots of sails allow you to pick your needs for the day. For instance, if sailors in the water are all racer's, you'd pick your faster gear. If sailors in the water are doing freestyle, you can pick slower gear.
And some days, you feel like cruising, while other's, you feel like being the fastest on the water.
Options. Do you want more options in life? Or do you want to be stuck where you are?
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theorem about having more gear not leading to more being dialed in is a little tongue in cheek, but I sometimes miss the days when all I had was a 5.0 for the Bay and I seemed to be perfect most of the time.

Now that I have a quiver, there are a lot of days when I rig, go out, not happy, re-rig, and then realize if only I'd hung on a few more mins it would have been perfect.

Now that I'm a geezer if I rig wrong at the coast I'm usually too tired to change it.

Or as Josh Stone said to me once, "Here in Maui don't even think, just rig 4.7!"
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Closely spaced sails can be great if you're lucky enough to pick the right sail when rigging. But they also can lead to the wrong state of mind - "my 6.0 feels big, I should go and rig my 5.5". The result is often more time spent rigging, and less time on the water. If you instead learn to sail way overpowered (speed and racing are great for that), and underpowered (freestyle can help here), you'll have more time and fun on the water. You'll also worry less about the wind going up or down.

Instead of spacing the sails closely, we have some sail sizes twice. The 5.0 freestyle sail comes out at 22 mph (or 17 mph if my lovely wife sails it); the 5.0 speed sail at 33 mph. Unfortunately, the 5.0 speed sail does not get much use.
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