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Larger board - question about planing
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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 435

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an idea:

Pick up a free move board like a Firemove 112 or Atomiq 110 and a 6.0 sail, which would not be a bad jump up from your 5.0. You would use both the 5.0 and the 6.0 on the free move, and significantly increase your planing threshold.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 5.7 would drop your planing threshold a bit - it it's now 18, a 5.7 would get you down to 16 or so. But that's only if the rest of your gear fits - the fin and board both have to be big enough. For most 85 l boards, the 5.7 will be at the top end of their sail range. Getting the most out of a sail on the top end of the board range typically requires (a) a larger fin, and (b) excess volume (which you don't have).

Getting an early-planing 100 l board will drop your planing threshold by perhaps 2 knots with your 5.0. You'll probably also find that it's easier to sail when not planing (since you now have excess volume), and easier to get going in marginal conditions.

But alone, the bigger board will fall short of getting "solidly lower than whatever the current floor is". To reach that goal, a bigger board and bigger sail will both be needed. A modern freemove board will make the biggest difference, but will also need some adjustments in technique relatively to your wave gear. Your first runs on it might be disappointing until you figure it out.

For comparison, here are my planing thresholds for various combos (I'm ~195 lb):
16 mph 110 l FS + 6.5 (and larger fin)
19 mph 96 l FSW + 6.5 or 110 l FS + 5.7
22 mph 96 l FSW + 5.7

Those are averages I need to see at the wind meter to get going with a limited amount of pumping. Add 2-3 mph to be nicely powered. The absolute values don't matter much, but you can see the big difference a larger board and larger sail make together.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"5.7 just felt like a beast to handle" Rolling Eyes

It's hard to be sympathetic to these First-World Wind Problems from here on the SW coast of Florida, where its a great summer day if hits 10 knots and you can plane with an 11.0.

Eye rolls aside, I do have some possibly helpful thoughts on your situation. Smile

1. A 100-110 liter board would be a practical complement to your 85 liter. The main difference is that it will be easier to slog, tack, and uphaul. It will also lower your planing threshold with the 5.0, but only by a little.

2. My windsurfing calculator says your optimum wind for the 5.0 is 19.5 knots. It says a 6.5 would be your optimum sail for 15 knots, but you could probably make it work with something around 6.0.

3. A 6.0 that is properly tuned and well matched to the board and fin will not feel too big. As with any new windsurfing gear, you just have to get used to it.

Good luck,
James

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally understand your position with your 85 liter board. At 165 lbs. I just don't like the feel of my 5.5 on my 85 liter Exowave. However, the 5.5 feels fine on 95 liter or larger board so something for you to consider down the road if you do get a bigger board.

To extend the range of my Exowave I added a Finworks 27 cm freeride fin. That is a big jump from my normal 19-23 cm fin range but it really extends the range of my 5.0 in the flood so I'll second the larger fin idea.

As a foot note, even with the 27 cm fin I don't like the feel of my 5.5 with my Exowve.

At your weight a 110 might become a handful with a 5.0, 100 probably is a better fit.

Coachg
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Larger board - question about planing Reply with quote

mthompson156 wrote:
I currently sail on an 85 liter wave board with 4.2 and 5.0, mostly at Crissy. Low end for planing is probably high teens or close to 20, which is basically every single day around here in the season.

Thinking ahead to later fall when there are likely to be more days around 15ish average, which will be below my current threshold: if I got a larger board to use with the 5.0, is planing in winds like that realistic? I know that sounds low for a 5.0, but I'm out there now with the smaller board when its not that much windier than that. Will another 20 liters or so plane much earlier?

I weigh 160, and usually sail about 1/2 size smaller than everyone else, either I'm getting more efficient or I just like sailing a little less powered than others. I'm usually happy on the 5.0 when others are 5.2-5.8.

A secondary thought was something like a 110 liter wave board so it could also be used for light-wind wavesailing, but I'm wondering if a freestyle-oriented board would plane a lot earlier.

Would prefer to avoid getting a 5.8 or 6.0, they just feel monstrous to me compared to what I usually sail. And sticking with the 5.0 would keep it real simple too -- on the marginal days I would grab the larger board and the 5.0, and if it picks up I just swap boards in 2 minutes. Want to avoid sitting there pondering which sail, which board, then being mad if I'm out there on a 5.8 and it picks up.

Primary goal = more time on the water with the 5.0 on marginal days.

Secondary = board that would be at least fun in waves in light wind, if not a pure wave board.

Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated.

I think you asked a wrong question, what you should've asked, what type of windsurfing gear will give me most adrenaline in 15knts ;; unfortunately most windsurfer are stuck in zombie mode, they learned a bit and try to stay in their comfort zone, all boxed in and safe as a turtle in its shell... Break out and have some fun... Judging by you aversion for larger sails FW is not your thing, although it’s the most kick for a buck in 15knts;; you do have a option to learn new gen freestyle with 100 l+5.7/6.5;; but the most obvious/accessible choice is a 105-120 l modern slalom +7m2 race sail doing 2xwind++ speed, or you can stick to your original plan and slog trying to plane for an hour or two
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on the wind directions and your wave setup, I think your goal of just going wave sailing with a larger wave board and your 5.0 is fully realistic. I weigh about the same as you and have a lot of fun bobbing around and waiting for waves with my 4.7 IQ and 85 liter wave board in anything from 12 knots and up. If the wind averages are under 12, I usually take a SUP with the same sail, and just skip the mid sized "planing oriented" board.

I also own a 5.4 IQ, but almost never use it. The 400 cm mast instead of 370, and longer boom, weigh down my board enough that I think the extra sail size's power effect is negligible. But, and this is a BIG but, I don't really care about planing when I'm wave sailing in that 12-20 knot range, and often actually prefer to schlog. It is just personal preference, and I'm sure many people would disagree.

This is generally in slightly side-on to side-off conditions and good punchy waves. If the waves aren't very good AND the wind isn't very good, a different equipment setup would be preferable.

Tabou has introduced a DaCurve 96, and a Pocket 102 for 2014. Could be just the ticket if you want to do some aggressive wave sailing. Or, get a small sailable SUP, ditch the idea of planing, and reduce your wind minimum to 0 knots. Sail the SUP in 7 knots to 20, then just go straight to your current 85 liter board.


________

As others have noted, significantly reducing your planing threshold in flat water/bump and jump conditions will take more of a coordinated effort matching up board, fin, and sail. In my opinion, dedicated freestyle boards offer the most bang for your buck when it comes to planing power, and they feel great with smaller sails rigged super bagged out in pump to plane conditions. Additionally, adding a sail like the insanely powerful and light Gaastra Pure 5.4 will allow for ridiculously early planing while maintaining a small rig feel.

Hope that helps! Sorry for name dropping brand specific stuff, but it's really good equipment and could be just the ticket.

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mthompson156



Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 29
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d0uglass wrote:
"5.7 just felt like a beast to handle" :roll:

It's hard to be sympathetic to these First-World Wind Problems from here on the SW coast of Florida, where its a great summer day if hits 10 knots and you can plane with an 11.0.



Haha, I knew someone would get a kick out of that line, and figured it would prob be you :) My 4.2 is actually the Naish I bought from you in Beantown a few years ago, it's still going strong.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. Definitely some good ideas to consider and try.

-Matt
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all relative, IMO. When I go from my 5.2 to my 6.2, the latter feels huge, and I carelessly snag its foot on the water in the first few tight jibes. Yet when I start out on the 6.2 and the wind (and swell) builds, I'm still having a freaking BALL until everyone else my size (or even bigger) is rigging or already on their 4.7s. The fun depends (for me) more on the terrain than on the sail size. As long as I have some terrain to play on, I'm having fun and trying to sail the same way whether I need a 3.2 or a 6.2. After a few runs to get my body and level of effort dialed in (ya gotta throw the bigger sails harder), I sort of forget whether I'm on a 3.2 or a 6.2.

If I just cruised rather than engaging in constant high-g maneuvering where terrain and sail inertia matter, I'd add a 7.5 to my quiver and sail 100+ liters more often. But my 85L wave boards handle a 6.2 well enough, my 96L wave boards thrive on a 6.2, and the planing threshold difference between those sizes is pretty slim. 96L is easier to slog, mainly.

Which brings up a more burning question: Do you really feel safe sailing at the ragged lower edge of planing at Crissy? (Land)Lord knows that if the wind drops even a bit on an ebb that your butt now depends on many factors beyond your control, such as tides, fog line, ship traffic, Coast Guard, GPS locator, marine radio, neoprene, visibility, companions, and how tasty you look. I rig big in part to give me LOTS of room for short or long lulls, and I'm just on lakes and rivers with virtually no health hazards and a short swim to land. At Crissy I'd be tempted to rig to plane on the inside just for security's sake. Some people say efficient sailing is "nice", but I say reserve horsepower is very functional even on a neighborhood pond.
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xander.arch



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get more into wave sailing. At your weight 85 / 5.0 is a great combo for surf and slog. It will also work when it gets windier. You can wobble around at Waddell or Davenport and catch waves in less than 15 knots easy on that. Just practice your surf and slog skills before the waves get big in the fall.

Or, get a dedicated 100l freestyle board which will force you to learn alot of new moves. It will also get you trying other spots with conditions and skill levels that will inspire you.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another +1 for bigger/better fin. Cheap and easy.

An even easier and cheaper fix is to review the rigging guide for your sail, and set it up for light air.
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