Looking for first buy, new vs used

evert.kjellgren · Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 6

Thanks for your input, much appreciated!

I will look for a used board, but what defines a longboard?
What length and with should i look for?

cgoudie1 · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:51 am Post subject:

A long board in Windsurfing is actually defined as any board with a centerboard, but what has been recommended is something in the
10-12 foot range with a centerboard that has a displacement of
between 180 and 220 ltrs. Your best bet for something inexpensive
is a Mistral Equipe (or any 1990s race board), but if you could find
a cheap Kona One, that would also be good.

I am not a fan of these boards, unless your conditions force you into displacement mode most of the time (5-12MPH winds). For lake
sailing, if your winds are more like 12-20 MPH, then a large short board
(like a 155 ltr Angulo Sumo) and a huge sail would be my call.

-Craig

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

Having learned just fine on the early Mistral longboards, I've never understood why they are now so disparaged for beginners. Sure, the padded picnic tables (e.g., Start, Go, Prodigy) cover up a lot of mistakes, but an Ultra Cat, Comp Light, or Superlight with the daggerboard down for roll damping (stability) was plenty stable for us back then. We could stop, chat, turn around, pivot, uphaul, do light air freestyle, teach, etc. as long as there was ANY moving air nearby, then -- because we had never heard of shortboards -- throw a 3.5 on it and have fun in 35 mph winds + higher gusts if the water was flat enough. Then you stand on them and paddle, or grab a double-bladed paddle and sit on them to race or tour. They sail and paddle just fine in displacement (non-planing) mode, yet jump on onto a plane and go pretty dang fast. The "those don't work any more" mantra dealers and manufacturers feed us is bogus, IMO.

Those very versatile boards are are gathering dust in many garages now, all but free for the asking.

Buying a new board to LEARN to WS makes no sense to me, for all the reasons others have stated.

whitevan01 · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 607

Iso, I think you are right on about this. Another consequence of learning on a wide board is that they are a bit too stable. What I mean by this is that you can be a bit off balance and the board will save you. On an older longboard, you learn very quickly where to put your weight to avoid falling. It can even be argued, I believe, that while a wide beginner board might get one sailing around sooner, they can actually hold one back a bit when transitioning to more high performance boards as the narrower board keeps one from developing bad habits that don't work on smaller boards, right from the beginning. It is more frustrating right at the beginning to learn on a narrower board, but it pays off further down the road.

evert.kjellgren · Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 6

I have access to an old Wayler Ypsi, length 3.75, width 68, vol 230 litres.
Do you think it would be a good way to keep learning or should I get something newer?

coachg · Joined: 10 Sep 2000 Posts: 3550

Finding flat water with a steady directional wind is a rare thing indeed. I've been teaching for over a dozen years now and the vast majority of the students I teach learn better if they only have to deal with one concept at a time. Trying to understand sail steering while trying to balance is a much slower learning curve than trying to sail steer without worrying about balance.

First two hour lesson ideally done on a short, wide Start type board that is easy to up haul & turn around. Once they are up & running I transition them to a standard long board such as the Naish Kailua or Hifly Primo. Lighter sailors or more athletic sailors can skip the Start, but the majority need it for confidence.

Putting large, none-athletic people immediately on long boards doesn't pay off in the long run, it just slows the learning curve.

So yes, buying a Start to learn on doesn't make sense but the boards are ideal for rentals, schools and that first sail.

Coachg

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

boardsurfr · Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266

Interesting topic. I just taught two beginners. One was lighter and had done some sports, and he did well on a 10 ft, 81 cm wide WindSUP. The other one was 210 lb and more out of shape; he had a really hard time, both on the WindSUP and on a huge but narrower board which I find very stable (290 l, 12 ft, very long dagger board, 75 cm wide). The heavier guy would definitely have been better off on a 100 cm wide board.

But nevertheless, I wonder what effect the very wide boards have in the long run. The initial hurdles are lower - chances of reaching the "sail, steer, turn, come back where you started" goal in 2 hours are higher. But I'd say the rewards are lower, too. Lightwind sailing on an old, narrow longboard is a lot of fun. On a 100 cm wide board, much less so. Smaller initial hurdle, smaller sense of accomplishment, smaller reward. Maybe even the wrong impression that windsurfing is easy, and easy to learn.

That said, Coachg makes a valid point that learning will be faster when working on just one thing at a time. Back when I learned on narrow longboards, we spent a considerable amount of time just trying to stand on the board on the water, learning to balance. We sure did not try to uphaul in the first two hours - the course was 3 days long. Reminds me a bit of what I saw kite surfing beginners go through in Tobago.

Since my learning days are a few decades ago, I was definitely not in the "large people" category, and I was reasonably athletic (like most others who learned windsurfing back then). We had flat water, but not steady winds. I wonder how many of the "large, none-athletic people" that really benefit from a Start actually stick with windsurfing. Coachg?

evert.kjellgren · Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 6

SeaDawg · Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 384

The short wide Start and Go boards get you moving accross the water in some fashion fairly quickly.

I started with small sailboats (Laser) in the early 70's. I think a longboard KonaOne/Equipe may help learn how to"Sail" better than the early stages of light wind days on the short wide board

The trade off is all that time falling in the water while learning to balance.

My thought has always been So whats so bad about learning to balance.

Bere in mind I learned in the late 70's on a Dufour Wing with tie on booms. Those days becoming a windsurfer was a well earned achievement.

Still is today, but the gear is so much better.

Short and wide/or longboard get a rig and do the uphaul/splash thing you will be sailing soon enough.