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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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 Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pmlct wrote: | | I bought a used Firemove 120 last spring and it wasn't for me. It was a planing machine for sure but in 5.5 or 6.0 conditions even in Hatteras my feet started to hurt after an hour from the slight harshness of hitting the chop. The real issue for me though was jibing such a wide board. It was like "two steps over and two steps back". Having a board that requires a totally different technique to jibe compared to my other boards is just out of the question. I sold it in 2 days at Wind-NC and bought a 2014 Rocket 125 which I just love but let's stay on topic here. I also have Tabou 3s boards in 116, 96 and 86 liters. My previous board was a Fanatic Hawk 108 which was amusing but the aching feet were a real problem. My days of blasting back and forth are over apparently and I find that a smooth riding board with good pads is what works best for me. The Rocket and 3s boards are both fast and smooth. |
Those boards are not for everyone for sure! Especially not for the older generation of windsurfers used to thick narrow boards-old habits die hard 
Two points here:
1. You've got yourself a size too big: the 110L Freemove corresponds to a classic 125L freeride board.
2. Why the hell are you riding a 80cm wide board with 5.5 and 6.0, that's nuts! Check out the RSS in the picture below.
Anyway I love the "sponge pads" on the Starboard AtomiQ that cushion the feet without the need for speed killing double concaves underneath.
To Isobars: early planing - not all of us sail in the Gorge and so we need width!
And a fun fact for dessert: Guy Cribb finished 6th in the Lancelin Race on a 118 L Magic Ride and a 7.5 6-battens NP Ride! And he was the one who was preaching that all of us should switch to a specialist gear immediately after the intermediate phase. Gurus get it wrong sometimes 
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: |
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free moves are short wide require longer fins.
they don't slog very well. i know that's not the point of free riding. but it does happen out in the surf from time to time. esp when kicking out of a wave. sometimes that turns into quite a challenge. slog to plane while the next wave may engulf the sailor. the resulting power onto a plane can sometimes turn into a nose dive, right into that very wave.
adapt to that the next time you are in the surf.
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joethewindsufa
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| jingebritsen wrote: | free moves are short wide require longer fins.
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is this true ??
i was surprised at the fins supplied with the freemoves and was thinking
perhaps they can get away with shorter fins, but was NOT what i was anticipating
example:
Fanatic Gecko
156 liters 85 cm 8.00-11.00 with 48 cm fin (for me 8-oh fin)
146 liters 83 cm 7.0-10.0 with 46 cm fin (that's 7.5 for me)
133 liters 78 cm 6.5 - 9.5 with 42 cm fin (that's about 7-oh fro me)
fins used to be aimed at the higher end of the range for a new board
so, i thought they were either "under finning" the boards
or they require LESS fin !!!
i was guessing it was more like the quote says
need LONGER fins ...
to hit the middle of the sail range, i was expecting almost 6 cm more fin on each
am also surprised when it is said that free move handles chop well
always thought wider boards did NOT handle chop well
even in 16 knot winds - when choppy - do not use my 80 cm wide freeride board
Last edited by joethewindsufa on Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | free move handles chop well |
Defining "handle" is key. A formula board in 20+ knots can handle the chop well, but that isn't necessarily a selling point.
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | Quote: | | free move handles chop well |
Defining "handle" is key. A formula board in 20+ knots can handle the chop well, but that isn't necessarily a selling point. |
I agree 100%! Some people have ridiculous expectations for this boards-like expecting an 80cm wide board to go thru chop like a 55cm banana rocker wave board AND at the same time planing as early as a 100 cm wide formula board! C'mon 
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| joethewindsufa wrote: |
example:
Fanatic Gecko
156 liters 85 cm 8.00-11.00 with 48 cm fin (for me 8-oh fin)
146 liters 83 cm 7.0-10.0 with 46 cm fin (that's 7.5 for me)
133 liters 78 cm 6.5 - 9.5 with 42 cm fin (that's about 7-oh fro me)
fins used to be aimed at the higher end of the range for a new board
so, i thought they were either "under finning" the boards
or they require LESS fin !!!
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The general formula is:
sail size x 5.5 = fin length in cm
Add or subtract a few cm for "heavy footed" or being underpowered, subtract 3 cm for being efficient or overpowered (check James' calculator).
So the 48 cm is a 9.0 fin, the 46 cm 8.6, the 42 cm is for a 7.8. The fins are right in the middle of the sail ranges for the two smaller boards. For the 156, it's a bit towards the lower end, which probably reflects the fact that only very few non-formula windsurfers use sails larger than 9.0.
Interestingly, the 2013 Sharks came with longer fins than the 2015 Geckos (e.g. a 48 cm for the Shark 135). I'd say the Sharks were over-finned. From sailing both Sharks and Gecko's in Tobago, I'd say that was because the Sharks don't plane up nearly as fast as the Geckos, so they needed extra help from larger fins.
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | Quote: | | free move handles chop well |
Defining "handle" is key. |
I have sailed the FireMove in Hatteras and Corpus Christi, and the Gecko in Tobago. In each case, I'd say the freemove boards handled the chop better than thinner boards I sailed there. But the chop at those spots is moderate.
The wider shapes can be a bit more like slalom boards in chop, in that they want to be sailed pedal to the metal. If you get them running free on the fin, you hover over the chop, and everything is just perfect. If you try to go slower, things can get a lot bumpier than on a thinner board. That can make sailing the freemove boards in chop harder for intermediate sailors who are not fully comfortable with going full speed.
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joethewindsufa
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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@boardsurfr - that is what i anticipated - have to FLY over chop 
width is also a factor in fin size
since my big free ride is 80 cm wide , i use this chart and it works
48 cm is 8.4
46 is 7.x
42 is 7.0
Last edited by joethewindsufa on Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I've always wondered how one defines chop? When does chop become small waves? It's hard to define depending on the body of water, fetch and wind. Small lakes, big lakes, oceans, rivers with strong current, all produce different conditions.
How do you define chop?
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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"How do you define chop?"
Certainly not as chopswell.
Really, its all about the nature of windswell. I like to think it's more like how the Eskimos can define ice and snow. In hundreds of ways, depending on the myriad of factors present and how it affects things. Often, feeling comfortable in differing windswell and more choppy conditions is all about adjusting to the height and frequency. However, it's when the windswell starts getting big and forming into steep wave like conditions that things start getting tough for wide large volume boards. When riding over chop is more like jumping in the waves, you immediately know when you're overboarded. By getting airtime, where the wind gets under the board and starts to blow you away, you clearly know it's time to rig down to a narrower lower volume board.
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