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sail problem or pilot error?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5818

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should point out that the Sailworks website includes a sail tuning guide for each of their sail lines highlighting three rigging variations, light wind, medium wind and high wind settings. In my view, it's a good guide for any sails, since most brands follow similar design/performance concepts.

http://www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/retro.html
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2420

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rounding up problems have less to do with sail tuning. technique the issue here. more important is Mast Foot Pressure. one needs to apply it with panache as one becomes more powered up.

ever notice that slower or less experienced folks never seem to sheet home properly? rig down too much in gusty conditions? chronically complain about wanting "steadier" winds? when one watches these folks, does one notice the nose up, sheeted out style?

to some extent, perhaps the sail is too fast for the board as well? dunno much about that board, but its name sounds de-tuned compared to the sail.

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www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://powerexmasts.com/?page_id=72
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More outhaul = draft moves forward, at least within the normal operating range.

Ditto more downhaul.

Too little dowhaul = top-heavy, plywood feel in most sails. Good for altitude and hang time if the sail was designed for it (e.g., the Hucker), but still produces high COE which must be managed by technique and sufficient board volume.

One valid reason for "excess" downhaul is the depowering effect someone mentioned. When the sun has set, the wind picks up, and there's no time to rig down, and I'm getting too hammered to have fun, I'll just overDH the sail to dump some power and keep on trucking. Another reason is to move the COE down when overpowered in the gusts if not using footstraps for whatever reason (skill level, injury, etc.)
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Spennie. Now you've got me really curious. It sounds like you like, trust, and respect the guy. But you still rig your sails on occasion with more than his maximum recommended downhaul? You're telling us that he knows more about sails than you do. Bt you're getting a benefit from rigging that way, and he doesn't know about it?

A few of you are making generalizations about sail tuning. We can do much better than that. All of us will have access to the internet. Maybe your rigging guide is in your sail bag. And Aerotechs don't have a 'gear' reference marker on them, so the Sailworks guide doesn't translate.

Again, you can find 2014 sails with rigging guides than run from no loose leach to loose leeches down to the booms. Use YOUR guide for YOUR sail.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 409

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mast foot pressure wasn't the problem that day. Over cooking the outhaul and not having time to rig down in way overpowered conditions.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5818

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"A few of you are making generalizations about sail tuning. We can do much better than that. All of us will have access to the internet. Maybe your rigging guide is in your sail bag. And Aerotechs don't have a 'gear' reference marker on them, so the Sailworks guide doesn't translate."


My purpose in highlighting Sailwork's sail tuning illustrations and information was to show the range of acceptable adjustment built into sails these days, whether or not they have printed markers on them.

In reality though, one needs to experiment with sailing tuning to find what works for them in the varied conditions that they see at their favorite spots. There's no getting around it, the experience that one gets from experimentation is invaluable in getting to know your sails and finding out more about what they can offer.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:
Use YOUR guide for YOUR sail.

That's a starting point issued by some dude, not a bible etched in stone by Robby Naish, and this sport is play, not a court of law. It's about preferences and innovation, not edicts.
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spennie



Joined: 13 Oct 1995
Posts: 823
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for swchandler.

+1 for isobars

konajoe: I'm probably 10" taller and 50 pounds heavier than Bruce, so my rigging differs from his. I also noted in my last post that my personal preference was to rig big with extra downhaul.

Not going to argue about this any more, Spennie out.

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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To illustrate the point, here's the oft used Guy Cribb article featuring Dave White, who's about my size. Keep in mind, I don't rig like the article's talking about because I'm nowhere near as good a sailor as Dave. I tend to do what Spennie recommends and go bigger with more downhaul. Point is, there is no one "right" way to rig a sail.

http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just not getting it, guys. Sure, slight variations in mast lengths and extension markings can make a difference if you use measurements only. But assuming you're using one of the recommended masts for your sail, and assuming that the rigging guide for your sail is based on visual references on the sail (the Sailworks gear, the Ezzy swoosh, verbage such as loose half way into second panel), how is it that you folks know more than the designer?

Why don't any rigging guides that I've ever seen address heavy sailor vs. light sailor? If rigging should change based on sailor weight, why don't some of these thorough guides address it? Don't these guys want their customers to get the most out of their sails? If a Sailworks sail, for example, is much rangier than what is printed in their guide, what would be their motive for printing the narrower range?

Not arguing. Hasn't anyone else wondered about this?
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