myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Iraq 2.1
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6172
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac and others of his ilk, the fact remains, more have been killed under BHO's administration, but he could have prevented that by pulling out right when he became CIC. You must have wanted him to do so, all those lives would have been saved, so why didn't he?

This is what I think, and have always thought, as taken from another thread where I posted this.
"To put Iraq in American terms, that area is basically controlled by 3 main gangs, the Bloods, the Crips, and the Hells Angles, it is up to them and their bangers to work this out, and we shouldn't care about their drugs (oil), or who ends up dealing it."
That was mission creep, that was IMO, unnecessary. Iraq's boarders are all fucked up, they need to be redrawn, but we shouldn't do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2721

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That will teach Obama to take the bus driving job when it's already gone over the cliff. It's his wreck now.
_________________
/w\
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republicans: "Obama has no military experience, he should listen to his Generals and follow their advice."

Obama followed the advice of his Generals.

Republicans: "Obama had a failed strategy in Afghanistan and lots of troops died."

No win situation for Obama.

"Among the charges in former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates’s memoirs against Barack Obama is that the latter did not trust his generals, did not adopt the Afghanistan War as his own, and was skeptical of the Pentagon plan for a troop escalation and a big counter-insurgency push.
It is now forgotten that Obama came into office in January of 2009 undecided about what course to pursue in Afghanistan. He had opposed the Iraq War and was clearly intent on getting out of that country (which was just as well since there was no prospect that an American troop presence would ever have resulted in social peace there). But on Afghanistan, Obama had more of an open mind. He wanted to destroy al-Qaeda, and putting resources into that fight might require a base of operations in Afghanistan.
According to Bob Woodward, Obama asked the Pentagon for three possible plans — a minimalist one, a medium one and a maximal one.
Vice President Joe Biden favored getting mostly out of Afghanistan and dealing with remaining threats through counter-terrorism tactics. I.e., Biden urged giving up on trying to secure the whole (very large and rugged) country. Where a terrorist gang popped up, they should be dealt with.
Gen. David Petraeus and others in the Pentagon, as well as Bob Gates himself, did not present Obama with the three plans. Months went by. It got to be October of 2009, and Washington began carping that the new president had no Afghanistan policy. The Pentagon in the end only gave Obama one plan, a plan for a troop escalation of 40,000 and an open-ended big war that would serve as a social engineering laboratory for David Petraeus’s theories of counter-insurgency."

http://www.juancole.com/2014/01/gatesgate-generals-afghanistan.html

Hey Baaaarrd, still waiting for you to respond to the error in your post about the troop deaths in Iraq under Bush vs. Obama. Was' up homey? Cat got your tongue?

Talk about tired rhetoric.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Iraq's boarders are all fucked up, they need to be redrawn, but we shouldn't do it.


What, the guests at the youth hostels in Iraq are disfigured drunken cartoon characters?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11434
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: remember the lie "we will be greeted as liberators" Reply with quote

remember the lie fed to americans. "we will be greeted as liberators"

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3080244/ns/meet_the_press/t/transcript-sept/#.U5p7UfldV8E

Quote:
Sept. 7 — This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: America remembers September 11, 2001. In Iraq, six months ago, the war began with shock and awe. Vice President Dick Cheney appeared on MEET THE PRESS:
(Videotape, March 16):
VICE PRES. DICK CHENEY: My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.
(End videotape)



http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000421;p=0
Rememeber these?

“I believe demolishing Hussein’s military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk.” Defense Policy Board Member Ken Adelman, 2/13/03

“It is not knowable how long that conflict would last, it could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.” Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 2/7/03

“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” Cheney 3/16/03

“We know where (the weapons) are, they’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, north and south somewhat.” Rumsfeld, 3/30/03

“Major combat operations have ENDED.” President George W. Bush, 5/1/03

“We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.” Deputy Secretary of Defense, Paul Wolfowitz, 3/27/03

“Iraq will not require sustained aid.” O.M.B. Director Mitch Daniels, 3/28/03

“A year from now, I’d be surprised if there’s not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.” Former Pentagon Advisor Richard Perle, 9/22/03

http://www.winwisdom.com/quotes/author/howard-fineman.aspx

Quote:
When Americans invade Iraq, Bush says, we will be greeted as liberators by the Iraqi people, proving that taking out Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do.

Howard Fineman

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11434
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are only there because of energy dependence........................ the war cost could have made us energy independent just at the 1 trillion cost... now estimated 2-3 trillion, and now even more..


I did a quicky cost analysis....

Here is what solar reflective/concentrating could do for us, and you will understand why the former oil administration put a moratorium on solar... these are not cells but are heating a fluid. New one just opened at the cal border off the I15.

Here is my data I posted before from the Boulder City solar project that was the worlds largest to date. In other words the cost of the war to us would have provided in today’s money free electrical power for potentially 100 million homes for 30- to possibly 100 years. We do not even have 350 million people so what about 70-150 million homes. Here is how I came to the conclusion.

Fact: what are we spending in Iraq a trillion or so? estimated 2.4 trillion.
Fact: the phoenix proposed one is 1 billion dollars for 70,000 households.
Fact: well this could have paid for us having free electricity for 70,000,000 homes. If 1 trillion.. for the next 30-100 years...
Fact: this is with paying high prices not a discount for volume production and not manufactured here..... we could cut that cost significantly by volume production and refinements. Maybe 30-50% less…
Fact: we could manufacture this entire system domestically. jobs...


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_n21300675
The 64-MW Nevada Solar One, touted as the largest solar thermal plant built in the world in the past 15 years, began commercial operation in June 2007. The $250 million project, located in the Nevada desert just 25 miles southwest of Las Vegas, broke ground on February 11, 2006, and was constructed in just 16 months. Solar One is the largest renewable generating facility in the state of Nevada (Figure 1). In fact, its immense size--350 acres--is, in the words of Green TV Productions' Shaine Ebrahimi, 'mind-blowing.' (You can watch Ebrahimi's podcast interview with project leaders at
www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=47845.
Power generated from the plant is purchased by Nevada Power Co. and Sierra Pacific Power under a 20-year power purchase agreement. Nevada's Renewable Portfolio Standard requires utilities to produce 20% of their electrical generation from renewables by 2013 and includes a so-called 'solar cut-out' that requires at least one-fourth of that power to come from solar sources. After all, the solar energy that shines on Las Vegas should stay in Las Vegas.

Solargenix has a 40-year lease with Boulder City for Solar One's site at a cost of $550,000 a year. The company also signed an option to lease another 650 acres in the future. Nevada Power Co. built a new 230-kV substation to interconnect the facility. Abilene, Texas-based Lauren Engineers & Constructors was the engineering procurement/construction contractor.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...a_solar_on.php
Today, Arizona's largest utility, Arizona Public Service, is announcing plans to build the world's largest "concentrating solar power" plant, a $1 billion project to spread parabolic mirrors over a 3-mile-square stretch of desert 70 miles southwest of Phoenix. To be designed and built by the Spanish firm Abengoa, it would generate 280 megawatts of electricity, or enough to power 70,000 homes.

The big issue with solar energy has been the cost. Brandt says the Solana plant is expected to generate electricity at 12 cents to 14 cents per kilowatt-hour, which is about 20 percent more than the cost of the other electricity that APS generates with its mix of nuclear, natural gas, and coal. But Brandt notes that since the price of the fuel is free, it's a 30-year contract with one big source of risk eliminated.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/militar...-wacosts_N.htm
War costs may total $2.4 trillion

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0122/p03s05-usec.html





http://www.kurzweilai.net/soitec-announces-major-u-s-solar-power-project

Soitec announces major U.S. solar power project
March 11, 2011 by Editor
Soitec (Euronext Paris) has announced that its Concentrix concentrated photovoltaic (CPV) technology has been selected by Tenaska Solar Ventures to produce 150 megawatts (MW) of clean energy for San Diego Gas & Electric.
The new CPV solar power plant, named Imperial Solar Energy Center (ISEC) West, will be constructed on a 1057-acre site in Southern California’s western Imperial County, expected to be completed in 2015. To support the project, Soitec will build a new factory in the San Diego region to manufacture its proprietary CPV modules.
Concentrated photovoltaic technology converts sunlight directly into “clean” electricity via concentrator optics and high efficiency solar cells that don’t produce noise or emit greenhouse gases, and requires no water for ongoing operations, a crucial consideration for the water-constrained Imperial Valley.
The ISEC West project will produce enough electricity to meet the annual electricity needs of approximately 55,000 California homes.
Adapted from materials provided by Soitec


The ground-mounted facility, which will be built on approximately 263 hectares of privately-owned land in Parowan, Utah, will generate around 210 million kWh a year – equivalent to the annual consumption of about 18,500 homes. It is estimated that the project will prevent around 150,000 tonnes of annual carbon dioxide

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 11434
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
Perhaps a little balance for a change? Unlike previous wars, the US did not leave a military force behind in Iraq to bolster a rookie local military and to provide stability to a country ravaged by years of war. We withdrew completely. Left them to figure it out on their own. The vacuum created has been filled by a ruthless force led by another "angry goatherd" who was released from US custody in 2009. Two mistakes with dire consequences.


Iraq was different, we attacked with lies... other wars we were in when attacked or when the world agreed that the world had to do something. No such vote for Iraq by the world. that is a huge difference in the occupations.

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6172
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waaunk waaunk waaunk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 479

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

youwindsurf wrote:
Hey Baaaarrd, still waiting for you to respond to the error in your post about the troop deaths in Iraq under Bush vs. Obama. Was' up homey? Cat got your tongue?
Talk about tired rhetoric.

I find these kind of hard, number-based contradictions between two hardcore right-wingers (including a self-proclaimed "student of world history") on the one hand and a reasonable person on the other hand worth figuring out. One side claims that "twice as many" soldiers died under Obama than under Bush in Iraq and "more than double have died under Obama than W", the other side reports that the opposite is true.

As far as I can tell, the reasonable person is right, and the others, well, they did not have the ability or decency to question the propaganda they were fed (this may be the biggest problem in the US, and perhaps worldwide).

The examiner article referenced by Stevenbard starts with a tricky title "10 years in Iraq and the Obama policy kills twice the troops as Bush". It uses as a source for casualty numbers a website with the title "Operation Enduring Freedom" which is our government's name for the war in Afghanistan, not Iraq ( http://icasualties.org/OEF/Index.aspx ). In fact, in Afghanistan more soldiers died under Obama than under Bush. That website also has a link to the casualties from the Iraq war, with numbers as listed by youwindsurf ( http://icasualties.org/Iraq/index.aspx ). Based on these and other websites, about 6% of the deaths in Iraq occurred under Obama, and about 29% of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan combined occurred under Obama.

So, an effective piece of propaganda by Stevenbard's examiner (mixing deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan?), and false claims by the usual suspects. Student of world history? Worrisome.

The right-winger also supported his claims with "google the stats like I did and you'll see otherwise". I would argue that, in addition to googling, it takes at least some critical thinking and a sense of decency.

Here is again a breakdown of numbers of US deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan based on the above and other websites.

Year - Iraq - Afghanistan
2001 - - - - - 12
2002 - - - - - 49
2003 - 486 - 48
2004 - 849 - 52
2005 - 846 - 99
2006 - 823 - 98
2007 - 904 - 117
2008 - 314 - 155

2009 - 149 - 317
2010 - 60 - 499
2011 - 54 - 418
2012 - 1 - 310
2013 - - - - 127
2014 - - - - 30
_____________
Total 4486 - 2331
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2807

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nitwit30 wrote:
Waaunk waaunk waaunk.

Least stupid thing you've ever said, NitWit.

Laughing Laughing Laughing

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
Page 3 of 24

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group