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Need help understanding my sails
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bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:
So, um, did that rigging video from Chinook help any? Was there anything that you were doing different from what it was telling you to do?


I did go out last sunday in some higher winds (20-35mph) and by putting everything I had into the downhaul, it definitely performed better at those speeds, though conditions were too fast to see if it was twitchy at lower speeds. I really had to crank the hell out of it though, going beyond the recommended luff. I'd have to get a hand crank or something to get any more out of it. I believe part of my confusion is that the 9.5 still has some flex in it when downhauled to spec (easy to overshoot since I can still pull) while the 6.5 pretty much stops at luff spec and I have to pull *really* hard to get it to move any more. The 9.5 also looks a little more natural when downhauled for wind, just a few more ripples, whereas the 6.5 kind of looked like it had a lot more slack/loose area in the sail. When the wind got above ~32mph (i'm making a rough guess based on my anemometer before and after) it got to the point where i was overpowered and had some trouble getting away from the onshore wind, but I don't think that's the sails fault... I just need a smaller sail!

In response to Isobars continued rants: I've only been doing this a year... I don't claim to be an expert and you're making a lot of assumptions about what i've done and what I'm doing. I also made a trip looking for additional lessons above what i'd had (which, like yours, didn't really pan out, due to a lack of ideal conditions and competent teachers). There will always be people new to the sport (I hope!) and there will always be questions that seem pretty dumb... getting angry and talking down to them doesn't help them learn and probably only raises your blood pressure. As it was, my asking my question really helped me (and who knows how many others) and it did it inside of a few days. You say that I don't listen to the experts, yet that's exactly what i came here for, and I got good advice.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bse, you'll find most everyone here is helpful and friendly. Iso just has this....thing. He could say good morning and make it sound like an insult. This whole forum suffers from his presence. I admit to biting at his lure once and a while, but I could really live without him.

Enjoy your days to come...you'll get it dialed in and be ripping it up before you know it.

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/w\
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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, a 6.5 in 30+ is a BIG sail, even for me. And I'm huge. Unless it's a full on race sail there isn't much you can do except go into survival sailing mode at that point. It's good experience though!

Yes the higher end sails have more range and can be downhauled more. But then there are all the downsides that people discuss here. In order I'd put sails wind range thusly, from least range to most:

- entry level sails, your Powerglide
- wave sails
- RAF freeride sails
- twin cam freeride sails
- full on 4-5 cam race sails

I know slalom guys who crank tons of down haul and use adjustable outhauls who can sail 7.0 in 30+ comfortably, with about half the sail just venting off. But then they're really good sailors. I'm not, and I don't want to deal with big double luffs and tons of cams, so I buy another size!
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Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if you do decide to go with a new sail, consider a used sail. This is a really good sail, and is known for working well with longboards. It will also handle better in higher winds (and lower winds for that matter) than a 6.5 Powerglide.

http://www.windance.com/7.0-m2-Sailworks-Retro-2010-CWT2354S012/
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Others have pointed out the differences in you sails so I’ll just beat another dead horse.

To answer your original question about the feel of the two sails you are trying to compare apples to oranges as others have noted. You Powerglide is basically a beginner school sail with inexpensive mast. It is built for a beginner cruising in light winds, not powering a board onto a plane. You can play with down haul, but in the end you are just tuning up a VW Bug so don’t expect sport car performance like you would get from the Cheetah. You could also try to get a better mast but in the end that is just putting better tires on your VW Bug.

It’s probably not the way you rigged the sails.

You can add downhaul, put on a better mast/boom, put on a fancy fin/board, but in the end you still have a Powerglide.

A smaller Cheetah would not have the same issues if properly rigged on a correct mast.

NEVER apologize for your explanations, they will get better with time.

Coachg
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bmoore98



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing. You said you're using the stock Viper fin with your 6.5.
While I agree that a better sail and mast should be on your wish list, you would benefit greatly from purchasing a good after market fin around 40 cm. I love the Vipers but the fins are really bad.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3082
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to the original poster:

with just that much experience & seasoning you sure came a long way fast pilgrim.
my 2 ¢

Ezzy sails are wonderful.

The difference between the Ezzy and the Chinook is measured in more than $ & ¢ .

The sails should rig very similar, take this piece of advise, write David Ezzy and explain the issues with either or both sails.

david@ezzy.com

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4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3082
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh...*** the guy dosent ride Ezzy, he rides Northwave sails, notice no one said NW werent fine sails...........
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K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
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bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
oh...*** the guy dosent ride Ezzy, he rides Northwave sails, notice no one said NW werent fine sails...........


OP here... Got my 9.5m Ezzy Cheetah and the 6.5m Powerglide, so emailing Ezzy might be appropriate, especially as i'd like to be sure that the Chinook RDM mast is appropriate for a smaller Cheetah (since I already like my big one, I may as well stick with it)

I may have to wait for a decent sale (or as suggested, used) for a new sail... this sport ain't cheap and I also have a large list of other windsurfing crap that I want... (tack a new fin on the list too!)

And thanks again to all the participants in the thread, I've been learning a lot!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14336

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bse wrote:
In response to Isobars continued rants: I've only been doing this a year... I don't claim to be an expert and you're making a lot of assumptions about what i've done and what I'm doing. I also made a trip looking for additional lessons above what i'd had (which, like yours, didn't really pan out, due to a lack of ideal conditions and competent teachers). There will always be people new to the sport (I hope!) and there will always be questions that seem pretty dumb... getting angry and talking down to them doesn't help them learn and probably only raises your blood pressure. As it was, my asking my question really helped me (and who knows how many others) and it did it inside of a few days. You say that I don't listen to the experts, yet that's exactly what i came here for, and I got good advice.

The assumptions I made were relevant, were explained, and were based on hundreds of man-years of collective experience as posted here (e.g., asking if one has enough downhaul DOES imply the answer is highly likely to be, "No" because an expert wouldn't need to ask the question. That's not talking down; it's simply a fact.) I merely offered advice, as you requested (and you even agreed with it, based on your similar experience with lessons.) How that qualifies as a "rant", which has negative connotations of anger and unreasonableness, escapes me. Your use of the term “continued” implies you expect me to rant, which may explain your false impression. That’s the danger inherent in believing others’ false attributions such as Coyotewindsurf’s incessant (20 years and counting) false accusations of my “anger”. She seems to equate pragmatism with anger … something in her upbringing I can’t explain. Maybe it’s like mac’s incessant accusations that everyone’s a racist. I can only guess that your attribution of “Get off my lawn” to me came from some PM; I don’t understand the comment, and certainly never said anything like it.

The impression you may not listen to experts came from your own comments about my “negativity”, your dismissal of the advice I relayed from many experts such as seeking lessons rather than following one poster’s advice to just experiment on your own, and from many before you who have asked for advice then rejected everyone’s well-meant and educated responses.

As for my BP … it was and remains fine, as I thought I had provided useful, informative, suggestions based of lifetimes of my and others’ experiences. If I had been angry, or considered your questions dumb, or were talking down to you, I guarantee you I’d have left no doubt about it.
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