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Benghazi, Libya and the Arab Spring--what have we learned?
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uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lesson that should have been learned is this:

Don't invade a sovereign nation under false pretenses, remove a leader who has been a stabilizing influence in the region, attempt to create a secular democracy in a region that has seen centuries of religious conflict, and facilitate the creation of a power vacuum within which radicals can flourish. All at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and untold millions of dollars.

I would rather my tax money be spent on education in the US as opposed to maintaining a residual force in a foreign country. Perhaps we can teach some people to spell. "loosing"?

Why don't you answer some of the other questions posed to you?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6477
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youwindsurf wrote:


Why don't you answer some of the other questions posed to you?

What, like did I serve in the military?
It's not about me any more than it's about you. We are both just small voices talking about something much larger than all the small voices here put together. There is not one large voice here.

Besides, does serving in the military help John McCain's credibility?
How about John Kerry's, or Bowe Bergdahl, or better yet BHO's? It's a wash, a dumb question.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9987

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30,

I have to ask, back in the late 60s and early 70s, were you a Democrat with anti-war sentiments? I might be wrong, but I would guess that you were, and later jumped ship in the 80s to vote Republican for Ronald Reagan. The responsibility and obligations for paying income taxes, FICA and Medicare changed many outlooks.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20084

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
P.S. And Maliki is a puss, BHO could have gotten anything he wanted, but he uses Maliki's stubbornness as a convenient excuse to keep his lame promise to his lame voters.".

Worse yet, he implies it was Maliki who refused the SOF agreement, despite being "caught on tape" in a televised debate insisting that we don't need no steenkin' SOF agreement. He thinks we missed that.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20084

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
NW...you seem quick to endorse this new war.

Same war, different alphabet soup ("ISIS/L"), MUCH more powerful and radical manifestation.


Last edited by isobars on Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20084

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
We spent $70,000 per US family in the wars in A and I. We lost 5000 US soldiers. The midEast is still a mess...maybe worse. Our allies have grown weary of supporting our conflicts.

Old men sit back and talk of sending young men to battle. Yet, we do not even pay for it. Some seem very willing to jump into battle, as if it is Monday Night football or something.

In the Mideast, we need a coalition. We cannot have our (in theory) allies providing monetary assistance to iSIS. We cannot support moderate Muslims who make side deals with ISIS to concentrate efforts against Assad. We cannot aid in the creation of a democracy and then override its elected officials when we feel like it.

Before jumping into battle (easier to send someone else) we need to resolve these issues.

You'd prefer young men sat around sending old geezers into battle, when battle becomes necessary?

Funny you should invoke pro football. Maybe you hadn't heard about the west coast sporting event WMD attack barely (by hours) averted by U.S. special forces raiding a jihadi cell in Mexico without Mexico's knowledge. Maybe it never happened, as we've heard about it only from a SEAL who was involved in it. Maybe it really did happen, but the president at that time understood the problems of boasting about our means and methods to gain (thus undue) respect.

We lost 3,000 on 9/11 partly because we ignored radical Islam's words and deeds. Many of our losses in A and I were due to asinine restraints levied on our troops to minimize collateral damage; maybe we need to reduce those constraints if and when the threat justifies it.

Some of our allies have also begun concealing their military actions against terrorists expressly because the administration leaks, often even boasts of, such plans to look tough or to sabotage them (because they make his denial of the threat look like what it is: stupid and dangerous).

Then why do WE fund terrorism by giving money to Hamas (and, through them, to ISIS)?

Even if we COULD resolve the problems you list and more, which is, or may soon become, more urgent ... cleaning up Islam's internal insanity or preventing the next 9/11 squared?

SQUARED, you ask? Why not: taking out the U.S. power grid is simple, and 9,000,000 deaths wouldn't even dent the expected deaths (up to 300 MILLION) estimated if it were successful and sustained. Al Qaeda has already taken out one nation's power (Yemen) in a suspected dry run, terrorists have successfully taken out some of our power grid in a trial run, an EMP blast over the heartland is getting simpler every day, and a successful software power grid shutdown is reportedly even simpler.

Which reminds me: large generators are garnering significant interest for powering homes if our grid is wiped out. I wonder if vendors are asking buyers how they expect to fuel those GASOLINE generators.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16047
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still waiting for NW to tell us whether he thinks now is the time to intervene in a religious war.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6477
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
I'm still waiting for NW to tell us whether he thinks now is the time to intervene in a religious war.

Why, I'm just a small voice just like you are, in the scheme of things.
Would you prefer the "religious war" to occur w/in our country before you take it seriously?
I only ask that because the fact remains that they (ISIS) has declared war on us, and they are formidable, just ask Dianne.
At some point in time you have to believe in the ideal of peace through strength, that is the only thing that will ever be respected.
In the mean time, more heads will roll.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16047
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I.m guessing that's a yes. But this comment is just silly:

Quote:
At some point in time you have to believe in the ideal of peace through strength, that is the only thing that will ever be respected.
In the mean time, more heads will roll.


The United States has a larger/stronger military than the rest of the world combined. It costs us a lot of money--and it has been bogged down now in a jungle war, a desert war, and an urban insurrection in Iraq. Weakness through war? Sometimes it is as simple as thinking that when you have a large hammer, and few other tools, every problem looks like a nail sticking up. Tain't necessarily so.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 3982

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on Mac. All we have to do to pay for it is put up with a few potholes in our roads. O.K. With me...I have an SUV and I am too old to enlist. Lighten up!
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