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Waist harness fit
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gobbdogg



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Waist harness fit Reply with quote

Don't want to start a long devolving thread- just looking for some feedback.. I was a long time seat harness user- no problems at all, except when swimming- tried a waist a couple years back didn't work for me- tried again this past year and it seemed to work- so now it's what I use- mainly waves- some b&j.. only issue- the pressure on my diaphragm/gut- when I strap it snug enough to keep from riding up, I feel very squeezed- when hooked in it takes some pressure off obviously, but that belt is tough.. Using a 3 -4 year old Dakine Nexus... my thought is probably just keep playing with the belt tensioning to find the sweet spot of tightness vs comfort.. but open to suggestions from long time waist harness users-- seat users need not respond- I got that dialed.. Thanks
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npiankov



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue you describe (harness riding up) is typical for people who are just learning to plane - probably in their first year or two. You are probably a lot more experienced, but it's possible that your experience with seat harness does not translate fully. The problem is usually that people don't straighten their arms enough and have their shoulders closer to the boom. That gives the harness a clear path for riding up, so people start tightening it etc. But the real solution is typically to relax the arms, straighten them out, and bring he hips in a bit. Then the lines will be perpendicular to your body and the harness will stop moving. Does this make sense?
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gobbdogg



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

definitely not doing that-keeping the boom close that is- my arms are very extended- not locked- often sail one handed- tend to jump hooked in- those landings can really tug it up.. anyway, as I said it's probably just a factor of tweaking the tension.. thanks
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2431

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a waist harness, I like my harness lines coming off my chest at 90 degree angles, so the waist harness doesn't move up OR down.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am wondering if body shape doesn't have a lot of influence on
"riding up". I "hear" about waist harnesses riding up all the time,
but I almost never experience it myself.

Maybe some shapes are better candidates for a seat harness and some
are better for a waist harness.

-Craig
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npiankov



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may THINK that you have your arms extended and all, but question is whether you keep it that way 100% of the time, or 95%. Just those 5% when you do something different will be the reason for it riding up.

This is very simple geometry: as long as the lines are pulling perpendicular to your body (or close), harness will not move. As soon as the lines start pulling along your body, it will get going. There is no other reason! Gravity works the other way! And even if your waist is bigger than your chest, the waist harness will stay put IF the lines are perpendicular to your upper body. No magic needed!

You say that it happens when jumping - are your arms relaxed when you land? How is your body positioned? Seat harness technique is clearly different from waist. You have a lot more freedom in terms of upper body positioning.

Tightening the harness further is not the answer. You can have it loose and it won't ride up if you do it right. The hook may sag and stick on the lines if it's too loose, but that's it. It won't ride up.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14476

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

npiankov wrote:
You may THINK that you have your arms extended and all, but question is whether you keep it that way 100% of the time, or 95%. Just those 5% when you do something different will be the reason for it riding up.

But we've been told for decades that the primary application for waist harnesses is in waves -- and, I presume, non-ocean swell -- in which our arms are all over the place as we constantly sheet in and out working the sail and maneuvering the board, leaving butt buckets for lock'n'load, comparatively motionless, slalom sailing.
Contradiction? Total reversal?

Either way, the implication is that every time we deliberately or accidentally let down our guard, our waist harness may creep upward. Every little such creep is one less notch in our breathing range, and after about three such lapses of concentration, I'm gasping for air and ripping the freaking thing off my torso.

Comparing that to putting on something like a Surfseat (or any such combination of a waist harness held down by straps rather than my lungs) and forgetting for the next 10 hours that I'm wearing it leaves me wondering what the point is with a waist harness. But then I remember that it's all about personal choices. At that point I stop wondering and fugheddaboutit.

It's Coke vs Pepsi if breathing is not affected, life vs perceived death if it is. I'd even go so far as to compare the choice to that between learning to like coffee, alcohol, Brussels sprouts, high-heeled shoes or not: if it ain't broke, what's to fix? i.e., what's the gain, absolute or net, of a waist harness other than hiking the hook up higher, and is the gain worth the downsides?
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gobbdogg



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

npiankov, thanks, though not to be pissy, you may THINK you are being helpful, but your reply comes across as very patronizing.. 100% of the time perpendicular? So when overpowered and needing to keep the nose down a bit you don't unweight your stance lean forward a bit and down to add mfp... oops, that'll start a shit storm of opinions!
I do know what my arms are doing- I'm an active participant- not passive observer. Anyway, I do take the points of these replies-
Iso, I tend to agree except, I do like the freedom of the waist- it feels less cumbersome especially if I have to swim for gear in the surf... but when hooked in a seat is fine- if on a wave I tend to unhook anyway, so it really doesn't factor in that much. Part of my draw to the waist is not being able to find a seat I like- high hook and minimal structure...might try a Sonic.
thanks for the help...
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npiankov



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter what the situation is, you have to have your hips closer to the sail than your shoulders. Then your body will be in the right position and it won't ride up. I know because I went through it myself - struggled with it for a couple of years and was also trying to tighten it up like crazy. Hasn't bothered me since.

If you don't do this, then you may want to consider the straps or just the full-on seat. Squeezing the last breath out of your body is not good.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14476

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

npiankov wrote:
Squeezing the last breath out of your body is not good.

I wonder ... could one difference between waist and combination harness preference be chest expansion? That varies from a few cm to over 7 inches even on normal-sized guys.
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