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What to be gained with a new sail?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14173

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailworks guru Roger Jackson of Cape Hatteras posted many years ago that he lowered his planing threshold from 9.3 mph to 8.6 mph (or some such similar numbers) by adding an 8.5 rig to his quiver previously dominated by a 7.5.

Some people said, "Wow!", but I'm guessing most said, or at least thought, "What's the point?", as in "Whose wind blows 9.000 mph all day?" I don't know if that extra meter cost him just some mylar or a whole new carbon triangle to hang it on, but I'll bet that at 110 pounds in a flooded drysuit he prayed he'd never drop that sail in the water.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rangerider - Did you mention what size your Ultrasonic is? Vol, etc.
Maybe you did (but I missed it?)... anyway, that also plays a role in this.
Greg -
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rangerider



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UltraSonic is 147L 240x93.5
I know one needs a bigger fin to go with a bigger sail. I wonder if I don't need a full formula setup - board/fin/11-12M race sail/carbon boom/100%mast - to really make a difference compared to what I have.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigger sail = more weight plus more drag and a ton of money. All for minimal gains
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1080
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A carbon boom is worth the investment. It will make your rig feel a lot lighter and more stable.

An 11.0 race sail will lower your planing threshold by a knot or so, and help you sail with more speed and upwind power in conditions that would have been barely powered with the 9.5. However, those advantages will be most noticeable in an area with light but steady winds. The 11.0 may not help much when you're just "fishing for gusts" in a small lake. My 11.0 feels a lot heavier in non-planing conditions than my 9.5, so if I know I'll mostly be shlogging I'll choose the 9.5 and put it on a windsup instead of my formula board.

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SeaDawg



Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To increase TOW with your 9.5, perhaps you could try and find an older longboard, Equipe,Ultra Cat, etc.

9.5 in 8-10mph/knts and there is really good centerboard planning, plus the benefit for real exploring by being able to sail up wind.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some folks swear that you may be able to accomplish what you're trying to do with a bigger/better fin. A quick look at the manufacturers specs shows a max recommended fin size of 62, compared to your 56. Might be worth a try. Less expensive experiment than a bigger rig.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fin suggestion is a good one.

For the sails, I don't have a clear answer either, but I also question the type of sail. 11 meter sails are typically Formula race sails that are designed to be able to dump a lot of wind. They are big partly because they need to work in "dirty" air from other racers.

Raceboard sails are limited to 9.5. They have low wind settings with very tight leaches that make use of all the wind available. They don't dampen the gusts as well I'm sure however.

My current large sail is a Kona 9.0. It's a simplified raceboard sail and it pulls like a tractor. It works well on and off the plane. I plan on buying a 9.5 Lion someday. I will use it in MORE wind than the 9.0 as it will be more stable. I guess it will plane later than the 9.0, but I still need to try it to know for sure. It will use the same boom and mast however...

In the end, it depends a lot on you local conditions. Here, there's probably one day per summer where the wind is steady and just a tad less than what I need to be on a good plane. Altough there is one guy who's always out when this day happens and zip by with his great Formula kit, I wouldn't justify the equipment cost myself.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point about searching for the gusts. One of the lakes I sail can get gusty on and off wind. I have been out riding my 5.5 doing Just as good as the guys on 6.5 and 7.5 sails. Up and down 5 to 20 winds. The guys on the bigger sails did go a bit farther as the gusts died.
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joe_windsurfxxx



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rangerider:

with your weight and that kit i would guess you can plane in about 11 to 12 knots

i use a BIC Techno Formula which is 94 cm wide and 170 liters with a TR-4 10.0 and plane with a 220+ pound carcass in about 12 knots
would i put a bigger sail to plane earlier - NON
i do not race and never intend to - well, maybe Kona one day ...

i have also sailed a Kona, Mistral Equipe and Fanatic Ultra CAT
under 12 knots I strongly agree with an earlier statement of the longboard being the answer for taking advantage of the glide and early planing
even the Kona needs a little more wind (>12 knots as a hybrid), but still glides better than a FreeFormula in less wind

you can try the fin, but if winds are under 12 knots - just enjoy
the FreeFormulas do NOT schlogg well and probably that is what is bothering you

practice pumping or enjoy the scenery Smile
joe windsurfer
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