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Mast upgrade: Amex Crosscut 80 (drop shape)
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antonputman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 129
Location: North Shore Italy

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: Mast upgrade: Amex Crosscut 80 (drop shape) Reply with quote

For my North X-Type 7.8 and 6.6 sails right now I am using a 460 North RED SDM mast, 35% carbon I believe. Now I would like to upgrade to something more performance.

I can buy a used (one season, no cambers) AMEX Crosscut 460, 80% carbon
http://www.zerogravitydistribution.co.uk/amex/mast_crosscut.html

The mast is a "drop shape" design. SDM foot that tapers into almost an RDM diameter in the top. I am trying to understand the advantages / disadvantages of this mast.
What I see in the North Sails mast line is that the drop shape only comes in the 430 masts, so I was wondering if anything longer might be at risks...

Is the Amex mast a good mast overal and will I feel the difference in performance? Gusts, pumping etc?
btw I am planing to change my X-Types to Ezzy Cheetahs but I don't think this will be a problem.

Cheers
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on this:
1. The carbon content is not critical until late advanced level /assuming there is some -like yours 35%/
2. If you are going to switch to Ezzys buy an Ezzy mast or don't buy at all /on paper North and Ezzy are supposed to match, but the reality may be different /
3. The best indicator for sail and mast compatibility /as I learned lately/ is the batten above the boom-if they match the end of that batten should just touch the underside of the mast in medium downhaul setting. Medium downhaul is when the crease in the second panel from top/the third if you count the head/ reaches the middle of the panel. You DONT need to put the boom on-NO othaul!
Take a look at the picture below and check if your current rig is like that and use it for future reference.
I'm starting to get pissed of all that soft top/hard top thing and from now on I'll be trusting my own eyes only. My most recent disappointment was when I realized that my 100% Ka RDM 430 is not good for my latest Revo 5.2. The batten above the boom pulls too much from the mast even at min downhaul-it's too soft in the middle, and on paper they are supposed to match! That same mast bends perfectly in a 5.8 Ka Kult.
I also had a too stiff in the middle mast before which produced the opposite effect-the batten was overlapping the mast and protruding on the other side even at max downhaul.
So check this 2 markers /the arrows point at them in the pic/ -batten above the boom just touching the mast underneath and 2nd full panel crease reaching the middle of the panel and if they pass you are good.I repeat: don't apply any outhaul when doing this!



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Last edited by adywind on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5081
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it that you are in the UK.

AMEX is not sold in the USA. I dont see any mast bend curve info/specs on them, ie UNIFIBER chart.


I would consult 4Boards for some proper guidance for suitable curves for the sails you intend to use

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4Boards....May the fours be with you

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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that you have more to loose from a poorly fitted mast than what you can gain with a higher carbon content.

I had a 50% North mast supposed to be a good fit with my 7.5 Ezzy Freeride. I tried an 90% Ezzy RDM: huge difference! The sail feels lighter and livier. The sail shape is a bit different, but not that much. I was not expecting such a change while on the water.

Armed with this experience, I went ahead and changed a 55% Sailworks for the fitting 90% Ezzy mast in a 6.0 Freeride. Not much difference in sail shape and feeling... The rig is a bit lighter, but if I had paid for a new mast, I'd be hugely disappointed.

If my limited experience is relevant, getting the right curve is more critical than carbon content. If I were you, I'd keep my North mast with the North sails. Keep the money not spent on the Amex to get an Ezzy mast when you change sails. Unless your North fits well your future Ezzy sails?
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw the X Type and the Cheetah are flat water blasting sails with bias towards speed and stability-best suitable for freerace, 4 footstraps outboard type of sailing, to wich you bid farewell when you sold the Rocket. Are you sure you don't need a more maneuvre biased kind of sails-like the North Volt or Ezzy Tiger? Those so called power wave sails pair with your WindSUP and future FSW/Freemove/Wave board much better !
I didn't think about it before, but your sails may be the reason for your issues with the 3S!
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antonputman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 129
Location: North Shore Italy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I will wait with the North mast than.
My Ezzy sails are 2009 Wave Panthers in 4.7 and 5.5
http://www.ezzy.com/sails/2009-sails/2009-wave-panther/

The 5.5 I am also rigging with my North Red 460 but it feels a bit heavy.
Maybe I should think about getting a proper Ezzy mast for those instead, I am convinced about Ezzy.
That should be a 430 that maybe I can mix and match with a 370 bottom to get a 400. Than later I can get a 370 top and go all the way down to a 4.0 sail.

Finally decided on a new progression board btw, a Naish Starship 115.
I want to use my 6.6 X-Type and 5.5 Panther, hopefully also the 4.7 will work.
That board should be good for nailing my gybes, at least I hope so. I get her next week.

Cheers


Last edited by antonputman on Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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antonputman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 129
Location: North Shore Italy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow I just checked out the Ezzy mast prices Shocked
500 new and NOTHING on the second hand market.

I do like their mix and match concept though..
http://www.ezzy.com/masts/mast-overview/
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Smile I would recommend you to use the Starship in 3 footstraps mode and at some point replace the XType with an 6.3 or 6.9 Ezzy Tiger. Use the North masts for now and keep your eyes open for deals on Ezzy masts. Or keep the XType /if you keep the 3S/ and later when you get confident enough for the 3S set the Starship with 4 footstraps up and use it for flat water blasting /if you have such conditions/.

Last edited by adywind on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not easy to build a minimal kit that works well at decent cost!

Ezzy masts are nice because they are said to have not changed in many years. So I bought used masts with confidence. It just took me a long time to find them used, and I am still without a 370 that seems to sell too fast for my reaction time...

The 5.5. rigged on a 460 North is probably badly fitted. It's not the fact that the mast is heavier, but the mast curve is probably not perfect, not allowing the sail to breath correctly. And a 460 being stiff for a 5.5 sail, it's probably not too good.

Finally, unless you live in a high wind area, there's no need to plan for the perfect 370 mast for your smallest sail. Smaller sails are a bit less sensitive, and you are not going to use it a lot anyway. A 400 would be more usefull for you I think!
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antonputman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 129
Location: North Shore Italy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ adywind Thanks for the tips. I sold my 3S to get the 2015 Starship because the 2014 model was not available anymore. The 2014 model was better looking imo, but the important thing is to progress now.
Later I will most probably get another 90-100-ish board but first things first Smile

@Sailboarder I already have a 400 mast, it's a North Platinum SDM, also a dropshape. I have been using it only 2 times now with the 4.7 Ezzy Panther and it feels very good. The 5.5 Ezzy Panther on the 460 North mast should work according to Ezzy as a second choice, with first choice a 430.
http://www.ezzy.com/sails/2009-sails/2009-wave-panther/
The sail just feels a bit heavy and it does not twist very effectively, especially in gusty winds. This is to be expected with a 460 in the vario top.
* Can you confirm me that Ezzy masts can be build from sections like 370 bottom + 430 top = 400 and 430 bottom + 490 top = 460
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