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WindSUP: Sealion XL vs Exocet 10'0 / 10'2
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antonputtemans



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey John, so you are never using the daggerboard at all?
Sorry English is only my third language - What do you mean you have "sewn shut" your dagger gasket?
I have never used a daggerboard but to be honest don't really like the idea of doing so, especially with Exocet's problems I have been hearing. Can I ask, what EXACTLY is the problem?
John please let me also know about sails on the Exocet. What are you using most of the time on the 10'0? Will my freeride sails work?

What looks interesting on the Sealion XL model is the Powerbox aft the masttrack for a daggerfin. That way I could sail my way out of my homespot bay and than remove the fin in open water without any problems.
At my spot it's not about surfing waves in the break but about the swell outside.
Actually there is almost no break. We have very deep waters here in the north of Italy with the swell hitting rocky mountains and very small beaches.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
people that sail onshore need upwind power.

As do I, since there's no perceptible current where I sail. That's why I put land in the bank ... i.e., go way upwind ... before diving off the wind.

jingebritsen wrote:
at least the swell/surf is a lot more substantial than an east gorge day, right?

Depends. Just as some ocean waves are just 3 or 4 feet, some Gorge swell run 6, 8, or 10 feet ... reportedly more, but I don't think I've seen consistent Columbia swell > 10 feet.

jingebritsen wrote:
your perspective from the gorge should not be applied to many other venues.

Only if one counts the other few thousand lakes folks, including myself, sail on. The OP's venue, at least until he clears the mountain's wind shadow, sounds a lot like big lake sailing: poorly organized onshore (i.e., with the wind) swell and gusty winds.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easterlies get you swells on the columbia? how often?
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antonputtemans, any sail should work. just keep in mind if you have tube battens don't use those sails in the surf. sounds like you have none.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
easterlies get you swells on the columbia? how often?

Every time I sail them, else I wouldn't be sailing them.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1086
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the daggerboard on the 11'8" quite a bit until I got frustrated trying to repair the sloppy/broken gasket. After that I just plugged the hole with a sheet of pvc and made do without a daggerboard.

Although the 11'8" can cut upwind OK without the daggerboard, I definitely miss the daggerboard when:

*Sailing in light, non-planing conditions
*Sailing in offshore/obstructed wind
*Riding waves in onshore conditions- daggerboard helps you get back out faster after a ride
*Trying to get to a wave spot that's a long way from the beach where I launch
*Sharing the board with beginners who can't stay upwind without the daggerboard yet

When I get around to it, or when they invent a better daggerboard gasket for the 11'8, I'll replace it so I can use the daggerboard again.

Anton, with a daggerboard you might be able to windsurf right from your beach instead of having to awkwardly paddle out and rig on the water.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14335

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
isobars wrote:
"Damn! And here I thought I was having fun in onshore."


Actually, virtually all Gorge sailing is sideshore wind from the launch points. Much different than direct onshore wind conditions on the coast, particularly when breaking waves are present. In communicating with and helping others, it's important keep things in the proper perspective.

Easy and frequent opportunity for confusion, which is why it's been clarified in this thread and many others; once the sailor is clear of the shoreline, especially in these discussions of inland waters, it's about the relative orientation of the wind vs the waves, not where the shore happens to be. A visitor dude who seemed to be a pretty good sailor opined something close to, "I don't see how you guys manage these onshore conditions; they are much tougher than side-on to side-off".

His initials are Josh Angulo.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It pretty clear to me that you lack any real experience sailing onshore ocean conditions. Otherwise, you won't have made your original comment about onshore winds and Gorge sailing.

You bring up a statement from Josh Angulo, but you fail to put his comment in context. Actually, he's absolutely right. It's a lot tougher to launch off the beach in onshore conditions. When trying to get off the beach with the wind dead onshore, your ability to get out past close period wind waves hitting you broadside makes it a very difficult task, because it might take you a hundred yards or more moving virtually parallel down the beach to find an opening to edge out sailing upwind. More wind and tighter breaking bigger waves only makes the task more difficult and punishing. Ironically, once out beyond the breaking waves and the impact zone, sailing around is super simple.

To clarify things a bit for you (I'm surprised that I really need to do that), wind at the Gorge is generally from the east or west, but your sailing direction is generally north and south moving across the river. That's sideshore wind from the launch sites. Really, no trouble at all getting off the beach. Contrast that with what what I said in the paragraph above. Launching in strong onshore winds where there is a significant fetch, even pros like Josh Angulo can be greatly humbled and suffer the consequences.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d0uglass wrote:

When I get around to it, or when they invent a better daggerboard gasket for the 11'8, I'll replace it so I can use the daggerboard again.

It might be a bit off-topic, but we've seen worse... You could install a Kona One or similar gasket. You would probably need a router to prepare the flat rectangular area required to glue the gasket in place. Looks easy compared to adding a duck tail...
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antonputtemans



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for outlining the use of a daggerboard James.
One more question, do you have the dagger half way sometimes, like during reaching or is it just up or down?
The issues with Exocet's daggerboards rather bother me.
I mean not good news when a person like you, who has the skills to add a duck tail to a SUP rocker, can't seem to resolve the gasket issue..

OK so at this point I kind of let go the idea of the Sealion XL.
It looks like a cool toy and it does seem to work also in very light wind, see:
http://vimeo.com/82449281
But it only seem to kick where you have nice clean waves or swell. No flatwater sailing or SUPing. Paddling this board seems very awkward to me, jugging from I few video's I linked to before.

I am convinced now that I need a longboard as I do quite a lot of SUP flatwater cruising with my GF.
I would say: 40% flatwater SUP, 10% wave SUP, 50% sailing in conditions to difficult for my shortboard (125L Tabou Rocket Freeride)
> 0-5knts SUP > 5-20knts longboard sailing > 20-35knts shortboard sailing
I kind of came to this conclusion thanks to James' excellent blog.
http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.it/2008/08/types-of-windsurf-racing.html
Thanks James!

OK so everybody says Exocet. But not the new 2014 10'2 model.
Again, here a video of Keith in NZ riding the 10'2 carbon model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEneAYqOOV4
The 10'0 Exocet seems perfect for me as my main complain about my current Naish Naulu 10'10 is length (it hardly fit's inside my longwheel base van) but also lack of looseness I think mainly because of it's multi concave bottom. The rocker is not that pronounced btw and it actually planes at about 12-13knts I guess. The Nalu glides well, even in very light winds.

But what about other boards than Exocet??
I read the 10'6 BIC Ace-Tec Wind is a valuable windSUP-er. Is it equal? Or even better?
Someone said "Don't believe the Exocet hype." It planes better upwind and has a nicer glide.
Here is a video of the board planing in not much wind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqF6O9S0W-Y&t=3m45s

But only yesterday I think I found a new kid on the block. From Tabou, the SUPAWIND @ 10'2 and 11'2
http://www.tabou-boards.com/boards/2014/sup/supa_wind
What do you think? Could this be a valuable high performance longboard?
Or is it just to jump on the learning-windsurf-on-a-SUP bandwagon??
The marketing photo's kind of send me that message.
It has a center fin slot like the Sealion XL. Doesn't say what box, but it looks Powerbox.
Does not have a mast track but 2 inserts, smart move. No footstraps, bummer.
I found more photo's here:
http://www.easy-surfshop.pl/produkt-deska-sup-tabou-2014-supawind-g-skin_399984_891
No good view of the rocker, but in these pictures the tail looks pretty flat:



What do you guys say about the Tabou board?
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