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Is This Rig Useable?
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jandrew7 - A couple more pros and cons for you, on this "new sail" in the photo. You'll figure out what you want, and can make up your own mind.

* This sail is from '96. Well, that's about the same year as your Veloce and your 5.8 that you already have. And I think that's a VERY good thing... as it's a safe bet that performance will match up more naturally, between all these parts of your kit !!!

* You say this sail is a prototype. And I'm not sure about that... it could be good or bad.
I have one prototype sail myself... I was working for this brand at the time... and I was lucky to buy this brand new prototype race sail. It's from 1994, it's one of the best and coolest sails I own. I've beat a lot of people with it, doing slalom races.
But... I suppose a prototype sail could be a "lemon" and might not work that great. I don't know. The question is, how does this sail differ from the sail, that they eventually went into production with?

Lastly... a lot of this stuff, "really" isn't that important to you. The most important thing, is to get out and sail a lot. Experience and skill matter way more, than design differences IMO.
Cheers, Greg Smile
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Bigwave65



Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Erie

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jandrew7, I guess G is making some new kind of rule (since its his forum)that some of us are not supposed to respond because he is the end all be all. Regardless, I troll on~ Yep, I like this sail a whole lot better(IMO) than that other piece....BUT check the monofilm material for brittleness, creases & signs of patches/repairs-older monofilm sails usually don't age well due to UV exposure. Have fun riding jandrew7 & as the mighty PE said-don't believe the hype.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1279
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it might be good to rig it up to see, but the other sail was in
my opinion, unusable until you fix the batten punch through on the
lower batten. So this sail is more usable, better. If you don't want to
fix the other one, the new sail you pictured "looked" OK to me. It
might be worth $60-$100. You need to check the monofilm in a sail
that old very carefully, to make sure it's not sun damaged to the point
of imminent destruction. Just rig it up and pop it back and forth about
10 times, and see if any cracks develop, or if it sounds crinkly.

Probably harder to rig than the previous, with the extra2 battens.

-Craig

jandrew7 wrote:


Hey Greg and company, What do you think of this as a better option for me? I have been speaking with the guy selling it. Its a 7.1, 1996 Neil Pryde Prorotype.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1365

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang it greg, you've set me off on one!

Remembered I once used an NPU 6.8 Action Wing, 4 batten, Dacron/Mylar coated pre twist top sail on my 128 litre Shredder. I've dug it back out from the attic.

It's probably much like our friends 6.8 performance wise, and I remember it was quite capable of planing the Shredder without much trouble. It was fine on a straight line blasting session. (By thge standards of the time, of course, and obviously with a less secure top end than modern twist top sails.)

One of the main differences is the aspect ratio. It takes a 510 mast but only a 195 boom. You've lit my fire (Not that it's ever been out) Greg, and I've adapted one of my old mast top home made extensions ((epoxy taper fit with bung to sit on mast top) to fit over my biggest modern 490 mast.

I figure it will work just fine on a |Kona 'gallumphing) session in a force 4. But isn't life unfair? A thousand projects in the pipe line and that ever flowing stream remorselessly flowing away.

Well to hell, this has been pushed near the top of the list!
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mark



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sail is either a Neil Pryde V8 or VX prototype. I had the 6.0 VX production version of that sail and it was a very good sail even by today's standards. The downside is that sail has camber inducers which is a plastic device that fits between the end of the batten and the mast which helps lock the shape into the sail. Unlike many of the camber inducers which can be adjusted to fit different mast diameters the NP were specifically made to fit either the NP or Fiberspar mast of the time. Your mast is older and most likely a larger diameter than NP masts especially the top half. There is small chance that it would work. I would not buy that sail unless the seller rigs it up on your mast and proves that it will fit and rotate properly or if he has a mast of that vintage that he would also sell.
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jandrew7



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
Well, it might be good to rig it up to see, but the other sail was in
my opinion, unusable until you fix the batten punch through on the
lower batten. So this sail is more usable, better. If you don't want to
fix the other one, the new sail you pictured "looked" OK to me. It
might be worth $60-$100. You need to check the monofilm in a sail
that old very carefully, to make sure it's not sun damaged to the point
of imminent destruction. Just rig it up and pop it back and forth about
10 times, and see if any cracks develop, or if it sounds crinkly.

Probably harder to rig than the previous, with the extra2 battens.

-Craig

jandrew7 wrote:


Hey Greg and company, What do you think of this as a better option for me? I have been speaking with the guy selling it. Its a 7.1, 1996 Neil Pryde Prorotype.



Thanks a lot Craig! Unfortunately I would be having it shipped to me. Any suggestions on how to check it remotely?
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I'm catching up on the conversation.)

< Any suggestions on how to check it remotely? >

jandrew7, IMO "that" would be tough.
I agree with the price range, that someone suggested for this sail. If you can get it delivered to you for that, you won't go too wrong.
And regarding the monofilm condition... yes, if it's been used a lot, and or, out in the sun a lot, it can get brittle.

If I were you, I'd just ask the seller, "Are there any tears, rips, or repairs?"
If he says "no"... and you trust him... you're probably fine.
It's not a lot to spend, and it is a more useable sail "for you" than the other one.

When you get it... my advice would be to inspect the monofilm (all the clear panels) for deep creases. If it has some, I'd put a piece of "packing tape" on both sides of the sail covering "that spot".

Then, when using it... take care of it. Try not to crash into it. Don't carry this sail on your head. And when you do crash into it, go "spread eagle"... try to not put your: head, hand, harness hook, knee, foot into it.
And when and if, you do get a tear in the monofilm, head back to the beach trying to keep it from getting worse. Then dry it well, and put a piece of your packing tape on both sides of the tear.
If you're careful and don't abuse it... it could give years of fun use at your level.

IMO, a newer sail of the same size would be heavier and more durable because it's likely to be scrim monofilm, which you'll see with all the lines of string laminated within the monofilm. And it will be less powerful at the low end compared to this '96 Neil Pryde. But it will be faster and handle easier at the high end of it's range, due to it's loose leech and twist head.
(Just a little info for you Smile

So yeah, get a decent deal on this '96 sail... and try to take care of the monofilm (if it tears, it's easily fixed with the tape)... and because of it's design it will match up well with your board and smaller sail of the same vintage.
My 2 cents,
Greg Smile
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jandrew7



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
(I'm catching up on the conversation.)

< Any suggestions on how to check it remotely? >

jandrew7, IMO "that" would be tough.
I agree with the price range, that someone suggested for this sail. If you can get it delivered to you for that, you won't go too wrong.
And regarding the monofilm condition... yes, if it's been used a lot, and or, out in the sun a lot, it can get brittle.

If I were you, I'd just ask the seller, "Are there any tears, rips, or repairs?"
If he says "no"... and you trust him... you're probably fine.
It's not a lot to spend, and it is a more useable sail "for you" than the other one.

When you get it... my advice would be to inspect the monofilm (all the clear panels) for deep creases. If it has some, I'd put a piece of "packing tape" on both sides of the sail covering "that spot".

Then, when using it... take care of it. Try not to crash into it. Don't carry this sail on your head. And when you do crash into it, go "spread eagle"... try to not put your: head, hand, harness hook, knee, foot into it.
And when and if, you do get a tear in the monofilm, head back to the beach trying to keep it from getting worse. Then dry it well, and put a piece of your packing tape on both sides of the tear.
If you're careful and don't abuse it... it could give years of fun use at your level.

IMO, a newer sail of the same size would be heavier and more durable because it's likely to be scrim monofilm, which you'll see with all the lines of string laminated within the monofilm. And it will be less powerful at the low end compared to this '96 Neil Pryde. But it will be faster and handle easier at the high end of it's range, due to it's loose leech and twist head.
(Just a little info for you Smile

So yeah, get a decent deal on this '96 sail... and try to take care of the monofilm (if it tears, it's easily fixed with the tape)... and because of it's design it will match up well with your board and smaller sail of the same vintage.
My 2 cents,
Greg Smile


How about the mast issue someone else had highlighted? Do you think it will be an issue with my mast? (Pictured) It is a old BIC sport mast that has a 4.85mm diameter on the bottom that tapers down to about an inch on top. It is plenty long enough, especially with the extension.



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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know that mast (worked with Bic, back then)... a fine fiberglass recreational mast. One piece, relatively lightweight, fine for you.
Is that '96 Pryde sail camber induced?
Anyway, for highest performance, for THAT sail... this Bic mast may be just a bit too soft.
But, it will work ok (provided it's long enough).
And, since you're 150 lbs...and only using this sail in 5 to 15/17 mph winds, you'll be fine with that mast in this NP sail.
Remember, when it gets windy (anything steady over 15 for you)... you'll be using your 5.8M sail. And that Bic mast will fine for that.

I'm impressed with the education you're getting here... with all this diverse input.
Save all this info you're getting from everybody. Sail and practice for a full season. Go back and read it all again. Little by little, you're going to be very knowledgeable about this sport !!
Greg Smile
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mark



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the Neil Pryde rotation issue on your mast. It is not so much about the top and bottom diameters of the mast but the diameter at every batten. Depending on whether it is a V8 or a VX it either has 3 or 5 cambers starting with the bottom batten. The mast diameter has to be close to the one it was designed for or the cambers will either not fit on the mast or they will not rotate from one side to the other. You would have to compare the diameter of the correct mast and your mast at each point where the camber touches the mast.
With the exception of first generation Gaastras and these Neil Prydes most cambers have a means for adjusting them to fit different mast diameters. The Neil Pryde cambers actually rotated very well because the batten tension is not transmitted to the mast through the camber inducer. The major downside is that with the improper diameter mast the sail is basically useless.
If you can find the correct Fiberspar or a NP mast of this generation the sail would perform very well.
Even if you did find the correct mast for the sail I would still question whether the sail is really suited for your ability. Personally I would prefer either no cams or several on just the lower battens. Water starting sail with cams can be a nightmare when the large luff sock fills with water.
If I were you I would learn how to optimize the rig that you have and save your money until you can upgrade both the sail and the mast. Your sail with the proper outhaul and downhaul will work much better than how you have it in the first picture you posted. I would even speculate that it may work better than the Neil Pryde on the wrong mast.
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