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barryxwind



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: sup sails Reply with quote

I might try one of these in a 5.5 next year on the SUP. Steve said they might be shipping the Vice in a month or so. Might make a decent teaching rig in the smaller sizes too...
http://www.aerotechsails.com/vice.html

w8n4wind wrote:
anyone using the soft sails ...
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jamieinnyc



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Those old Dacron unbattened 80's sails were certainly powerful (on long boards) in light winds.

Fished out a 1983 Point Rainbow triangular one from the attic 'treasure trove' last year, complete with old epoxy mast and ancient 'Forth Bridge' length boom, for a summer breeze day retry, using the Kona.

Definitely had light wind push, but good grief, what a monster length boom and heavy feel. And when the wind gusted -yikes!


Contrary to your experience with a vintage rig I can say that the first impression of the SummerFreak is how light it is - it is a fraction of the weight of high-tension sails. I use mine with a modern carbon mast, which granted is much lighter than an epoxy one. The booms I use are Gunsails aluminum 250-300 - not the lightest boom, but to me the whole rig is featherweight compared to anything else I sail.

The big performance difference between the SummerFreak and the old sails comes from the draft profile. The old sails had very deep draft, which was fine for very light breezes, but is a disaster in anything more (this was my experience with the Severne Superlight as well). The SummerFreak has a much more refined profile, which is highly tunable (almost all by outhaul, much less by downhaul). Yes, when the wind is comfortably in planing range, a high tension sail will be faster and more stable, but the SummerFreak is still really fun (a different sensation), unlike the old sails, which are slow and exhausting.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree with Jamie, and I think it's great that Hot sails, is offering this type of sail.
There's no question that they're light and easy to use.
They will only "feel heavy" when they're "blown out"... which used to happen to the old 80's Dacron sails, after lots and lots of use by big guys, in high winds. Then yes, in high winds, they will feel heavy because the draft moves way back.

My mid 80's Bic Wing rig is very light, the whole rig together. It has a medium duty fiberglass mast, that works great for the low tension sail with shallow luff curve. It's not for sailing waves crashing on the beach... it's not for sailing nukin' conditions... it's not for rigging a Retro on that has tons of luff curve.
But I'm 205lbs. and it's totally reliable in winds for me up to 15 or 20 (although, I'm usually only going to sail this in 5 - 15 stuff). Anyway, the mast isn't as light as my 100% carbon masts, but it is NOT heavy. A heavy mast is a 1990 Ampro wave mast, this Bic Wing mast weighs half as much.
The sail looks the same as in Jamie's great video, same size, shape, and also has 3 little leech battens. It weighs almost nothing.
The boom is non-adjustable alum and made for it. It's strong enough to do the job for any adult (even a big dude) in flat water sailing up to maybe 20mph winds... but I wouldn't push it more than that. It is as light as my carbon mid-size booms.
The sail has hardly been used since it was new. I just bought this whole matched rig last year, along with the Bic Wing board itself. But I'm used to this stuff... I used these all through the 80's and I'm very familiar with them. I bought my first board, an Alpha Pro in 1981.

Anyway, most all the newer people buying wind-sup's wouldn't have any idea what is junk and what is a treasure, in the used market.
So, to buy a NEW soft sail that works better than most things in light winds... and is light to carry around... and easy to learn and progress with... and very functional for longboards in winds from 1 - 20... is GREAT.
I hope Hot sails sells a ton of these!!
Greg -
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LUCARO



Joined: 07 Dec 1997
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody know if this is sail only?

http://livewellsports.com/aerotech-sails-2013-windsup-5-8?gclid=COrHzr36nL4CFZRcfgodnkEAHg
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucaro,
The ad is pretty clear... that the sale price is for a complete rig... that's what the description says.
Which is an awesome deal !!!
So I called them to confirm. And they're sorry, but no, 250 gets you the sail only. The sail price for the rig pkg. is $499.
I suggested they make their ad more clear!

Anyway, I think these sale prices are fair.
But the "mistake price" was a killer deal Smile
Greg -
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LUCARO



Joined: 07 Dec 1997
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bummer. Probably could easily do the same with an old RDM mast. Just unroll, add boom and go.

Would seem awkward to keep boom attached anyway.
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outhaul



Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LUCARO wrote:
Bummer. Probably could easily do the same with an old RDM mast. Just unroll, add boom and go.

Would seem awkward to keep boom attached anyway.


I think we're selling the Aerotech wind sup sail short here.
It has vertical battens, can't think of another sail currently made that has this feature. It's not a high wind sail and doesn't pretend to be one but the battens must provide additional stability or they wouldn't be there. The new 2014 design also has a sweet looking oval window, it's fun to look at and I'm sure functional too. Some of the old classic soft sails will do the same thing but do you really want to mess around with a huge boom in excess of 250cm? I sure don't, kind of defeats the purpose of simple, fun, light -wind sailing. I'm betting on this sail.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

< Some of the old classic soft sails will do the same thing but do you really want to mess around with a huge boom in excess of 250cm? I sure don't, kind of defeats the purpose of simple, fun, light -wind sailing. >
Outhaul -
I'm not trying to be positive or negative about any of these new wind-sup (or longboard) light wind sails.
They all have different features, giving each one pros and cons. It's nice to have a selection... the buyer can decide what they like best... everyone has different goals and sails in different conditions.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, since you mentioned it...
there is a very good reason for the Hot Sails design with the LONG boom length.
And that is - speed and power in light winds!!
I can't describe the technical details... but a sail designer could, or someone here that knows and can articulate the technical reasons. But anyway, it's true... something to do with how long the wind flow is acting on the sail. In light winds, the longer boom length the better.

And in the mid-70's to mid 80's (when everybody had these sails) there were tons of lightweight long booms. Many of them didn't have any adjustment, and they didn't need any, cause everybody had only one sail.
And they weren't use in winds over 20 mph. So, for those reasons, they were light.
I don't know if you can find booms like that now.
Greg Smile
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1381

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to laugh Greg, about those old flexible fixed booms. What with the wandering deep billowing of those blown out unbattened dacron sails (but they were cheap!) and the bendy noodle great long sprigy boom arms, it was all a great laugh. (Hadn't heard of harnesses in those days - we were all 'supermen' with muscles of steel. Laughing Laughing )

I once cut a bent bit out of the Hi-Fli noodle boom and cannibalized a section of new vacuum cleaner tubing to repair it. Didn't regret the repair, but learnt the error of my ways at selfishly ruining a perfectly good household gadget. ( Embarassed )

It was for such reasons of unreliability, especially of disappearing sea breezes when out at sea, that I first learnt that carrying split paddles was a necessity.

Who says those light wind early days were boring!! (Perhaps SUP'ing really is a return to fun?
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL... yeah Gurgletrousers... great memories, eh?

Those lightweight long booms for soft sails back then (which would also work with Hot's new sail)... were really only for normal sized people... and for sailing in light to maybe marginal winds.

But for the many like you and me (and thousands of other's) it was a "character builder" when we "pushed it", wasn't it Smile

Really though, when the booms were fairly new and the sail wasn't blown out yet... it all worked decently enough.
But with blown out sails... or worn out booms... it would be very challenging, LOL

Fun times !!
Greg Smile
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