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Harness issues
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outcast



Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 2438

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after 4 pages, I would simply add that the best way to not have it ride-up is to cinch it down so tight before you go that you can't breath...it will loosen up. I know that doesn't sound safe, so please don't listen to me.

Truthfully they ride up...even in the prior pic.....too much and it's time for a break and re-cinch

maybe even the core changes (tightens) once you start sailing
so crank it

Tall torso and all....your lats will keep it from going higher when you arms are extended....might need shorter lines though .

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not tall but had the same issues with the harness riding up and staying up. I'm 5'8" and 155lbs with a 30" waist or less.

Harness type
I have two Dakine waists. One T4 Large and a thermo form Medium. I prefer the large size T4 for it's greater covering surface on my back, doesn't dig in my ribs, it's softer and the bar strap doesn't rub on my skin. My harness lines are 30-32" long.

I wave ride pretty much exclusively. When I used to sail formula equipment I switched to a seat harness in order for me to push on the rail with my legs and extend the upper range. I got worked when trying a waist with the 9.2 so I prefer using it with the smaller sizes (7.0-) as I feel more connected with my sail. To me a waist harness permits more finesse with power delivery onto the board while a seat provides more leverage to push off a feisty board.

Riding up
If I tighten my waist harness on my hips, it'll ride up since my hips are wider than my waist. Then it'll "self" tighten more (the secondary belts do that) and cannot be pushed back down thereafter.

The harness rides up when lifting my knees up at the waterstart or when I get low on my legs while remaining hooked in. My boom is at shoulder level.

After numerous tests I realized that the bar needs to be as tight against the body as possible. This increases the connection with the rig. Coming back on the beach the bar should feel tight and not wobbly loose.

Testing and solution
So I decided to try placing my harness on my hips where I like it (corresponding to having the hook near belly button) and simply close the main straps together without pulling them tight. Maybe the straps can be crossed down a touch, I found this helps against riding up. I leave the secondary straps untied.

Then I pull on the bar strap nearly as tight as possible. This way I have a harness that comes back down by itself to the right spot without having to wiggle it down. Also the harness itself is loose enough that it doesn't affect breathing or hinders abdominal muscles while the bar being super tight provides strong connection with the rig.

So far this is my favorite combination. I haven't tried other models, testing on the water will beat any in-store fitting sessions!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall no more alarming, intolerable, panicky, desperate feeling in my windsurfing history than having my rib cage and thus breathing constrained by a tight harness. I want straps, not oxygen deprivation, to hold my harness down. I never notice the former, but absolutely HATE the latter with every deep breath I take. I've laid in the water, ripped my helmet off, and frantically clawed my harness off in search of more air after some particularly anaerobic reaches, and that was in an XTSeat butt bucket lashed down too tightly too soon after a big meal. If I had to choose one criterion for a harness, it would be room to breathe fully after a 440-yard sprint. Fortunately, we aren't forced to choose based on that alone.

I use the same approach for my rib armor, strapping it to the kite grab handle/cable across the rear of my harness. Room to breathe, no floating up into my face. The vests that rely on a tight elastic fit to stay down are pure torture to me.

I agree that testing on the water is hands down more useful than hanging on ropes in the store.
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steve1



Joined: 30 Apr 1998
Posts: 236
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW I wrecked my back with a waist harness back in the 80's. I actually made my own seat harness and all the back troubles went away.

I tried a few waist harnesses in the mid 2000's when they became they came back in fashion and my back started playing up almost straight away.

I sail slalom and wave and use the same Da Kine seat harness for both. I dont know the model but I can adjust the position of the spreader bar.

For slalom and high speed blasting I run it hiked out with longer lines and the hook low.

For bump and jump and wave I set up for a more upright stance with shorter lines and the hook set higher.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, my back improved after I switched to a waist harness.

-Craig

steve1 wrote:
FWIW I wrecked my back with a waist harness back in the 80's. I actually made my own seat harness and all the back troubles went away.

I tried a few waist harnesses in the mid 2000's when they became they came back in fashion and my back started playing up almost straight away.

I sail slalom and wave and use the same Da Kine seat harness for both. I dont know the model but I can adjust the position of the spreader bar.

For slalom and high speed blasting I run it hiked out with longer lines and the hook low.

For bump and jump and wave I set up for a more upright stance with shorter lines and the hook set higher.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1916
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
FWIW, my back improved after I switched to a waist harness.

-Craig

steve1 wrote:
FWIW I wrecked my back with a waist harness back in the 80's. I actually made my own seat harness and all the back troubles went away.

I tried a few waist harnesses in the mid 2000's when they became they came back in fashion and my back started playing up almost straight away.

I sail slalom and wave and use the same Da Kine seat harness for both. I dont know the model but I can adjust the position of the spreader bar.

For slalom and high speed blasting I run it hiked out with longer lines and the hook low.

For bump and jump and wave I set up for a more upright stance with shorter lines and the hook set higher.


FWIW, different body types, different sailing techniques, different back issues.

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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a trip to Honolulu for a doctors appointment and drove over to Kailua and visited the two windsurfing and kiting shops, Naish and Hawaiian watersports.
HW had the very cool Mystic harnesses but $295!
For over an hour I tried on every harness that would fit and hung from their demo lines.
What I found was contrary to the prevailing advise to try them all because they fit different, to me they all felt pretty good.
Top of the line Dakine t6 has a sliding bar which I did not like.
Naish Moto was the tallest, so tall that I could really feel it down on my hips but I didn't like the kiting type hook which is not interchangeable.
Naish and Mystic size large is the same as Dakins size XXL, wtf???
I settled for a several year old size XXL Dakine Tabu kite harness for $75, came without a spreader bar but the one off my Dakine Fusion seat harness fits.
When I got home and compared it to my Dakine Fusion seat harness I discovered when wearing both the hook height is exactly the same, further investigation reveals that the piece of foam used is exactly the same except on the seat it hangs down a bit further, the top part is exactly the same, the Fusion is a waist harness with some extensions and leg straps.
Now if we could just get some wind

Sad
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried out the waist harness today, my observations are compared to a Dakine Fusion seat harness which has the same hook height.
The WH promotes leaning the body out while the SH allows one to cheat a bit and just sit down. Most noticeable while slogging or transitioning to planing when you let up your guard a bit and are susceptible to a slow speed catapult the SH allows you to act quicker and just bend your knees and sit down while the WH requires one to push the board away with your feet to lean back away from the board.
When you are on a full plane there isn't as much difference.
I would go as far as to say the WH promotes proper technique, it's one more thing to deal with, making sure one's posture is correct.
Holding down a giant overpowered race sail I can understand the need for a SH but I'm just an intermediate screwing around.
Yes your legs are a bit restrained in a SH but that's not really a problem, I suppose I could swim better in the WH.
The WH needs to be worn tighter, at first it was too tight and I realized it would not be possible to get it so tight it would not move, it's gonna move up and around a bit but you deal with it.
It does sometimes end up a bit higher than the Fusion SH which I liked.
The SH can be worn much looser and it will never ride up.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
The SH can be worn much looser and it will never ride up.

Yup. My SH leg straps are loose enough that I easily step into and out of the harness, sail, swim, walk, eat, sit out lulls on land, waterstart, sing bass, etc ... all without messing with the leg straps and all even with my knee brace on. I never know the leg straps are there, yet the functional part of the harness -- the sailing load support system -- is as tight as I want it and never shifts. There's no need to cinch the leg straps up tight. Functionally speaking, it's a waist harness that never budges.
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drysuit2



Joined: 01 Apr 1997
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:02 am    Post subject: DaKine Chameleon solves my Surfseat lust Reply with quote

I am also a fan of the Da Kine Surf seat. Essentially a waist harness with a seat attachment. After years of letter writing, and learning to sew leg straps onto my waist harnesses, like all you other Surfseat lovers…

This spring, I discovered the
DaKine Chameleon

Removable seat harness attachment
Stainless steel spreader bar
Freedom shape spreader bar pad
Dual blade hook knife
Pre-Curved P.E.B. inner support structure
Featherweight ES foam molded lumbar pad
Removable handle and leash attachment
Single overlap power belt

I promptly purchased two. Thank you DaKine



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