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Thurston



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Cams Reply with quote

Are not that bad!

First day out yesterday with my first camed sail, a 2006 Ezzy 7.0 Infinity. I set up the pockets the day before and rigged yesterday all without issue. I watched the Ezzy tutorial video, read the instructions, and it was way easier than I expected.

Not sure what all the fuss is about cams being difficult to rig. I can see a new beginner having trouble popping the sail over when tacking, but otherwise it only took a few more minute to rig.

The only issue I did have was the outside of the sail resting on the boom. Could be either a loose outhaul or the boom isn't compatible.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3089
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the choice would you you purchase a Lion or Cheetah...lets assume they are the same $$ ??
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In some ways the Ezzy cam system is as easy as a cam less sail. I use the Cheetah sails and they really work great. It is a bit more difficult to get the mast into the sleeve than on the cam sails. A lot of people won't take the time to watch the setup and tuning video's that Ezzy provides. These give great insight by the guy that designed the sails. Once set up, these sails are a snap to rig. As for the sail on the boom, Be sure to add the right amount of out haul for the amount of down haul you are using. Some booms can be a bit to narrow for a deep draft sail. Again, watch the video on tuning your sail. its not a big deal it the sail touches the boom. My 2014 Cheetah sails touch the boom at the lite wind setting. Just remember that the more you down haul the more out hual you need....
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3089
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have rigged both the Infinity, the one that started this, and the Lion, rigging did not pose a particular issue, or fuss, as said, they do impose an additional element, BUT the lack of rotation did, esp when not powered up.

I use Ezzy masts and had 2 490s for these sails. Discussed the rigging with David, and was still not happy.

from a sail designer that some sails dont suit everyone, perhaps I belong in that group with this sail.

to each his own
horses for courses
YMMV

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2018

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cams are neither good nor bad, simply a tool that can make your life easier or more difficult.

Cam Problems.

Cams add weight to the sail and cam sails generally have more battens so even more weight. The larger the sail, the bigger the difference in weight. Cam sails also require larger luff sleeves so they can capture more water which adds even more weight. The heavier sail is more difficult to uphaul or water start.

Cam sails are more mast sensitive, may or may not require cam shims. If improperly rigged they can break battens. So cam sails take longer to dial in.

Because of the modern day process of snapping cams on after threading the mast they take a little longer to rig. However, the larger luff sleeve makes the faster to de-rig.

Because of the shape & tension at the cam, cam sails are harder to rotate, especially in a lighter wind. Also, the cam sail never fully goes to neutral because of the shape at the luff caused by the cams. If you are doing lots of sail handling or maneuvers cam sails are more difficult because you canít shut off the power by putting them in neutral. This is also why learning to jibe or tack with cam sails is more difficult than with RAF sails.

Cam Advantages

Cam sails COE is more stable because the cam locks in the shape. This allows you sail in higher winds, gusty winds, off the wind or closer to the wind with less effort do to more stability.

As mentioned earlier, cam sails never go to neutral so the power is always on. This makes cam sails pull earlier out of a gybe.

Cam sails have a larger luff sleeve so they de-rig faster than RAF sails.

Choose your tools based on your needs.

Coachg
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the Cheetah sails and love them. Friends have the Lion and I have no trouble keeping up or passing. That said, my big sail is a 6.5
Maybe 7.5 or larger a few cams might be helpful. Most will say that the Lion has more power. I don't really see it. The best thing about the Cheetah is the ease in the turns. It all but goes away when you enter a high speed turn ( if you keep it sheeted in). The power on the exit comes on smooth and steady without the snap and jerk of the Lion. As for the power thing. I feel the Cheetah is very easy to pump up on a plane if need be. It can be rigged very soft to add power. Its not as stable that way but it has a lot of low end. You might get that extra hour without re-rigging a bigger sail. If you try that with the Lion, it will feel heavy and dead and the cams won't rotate. The 2014 Cheetah rigs with a bit fuller head. It still has twist and is very stable and fast. To me it seems to have a bit more low end than last year. I have been on my 5.5 a lot more so far and my 6.5 rarely gets wet. (Lake Lopez) The Lion seems to coast thru the lulls and holes a bit better. I can get up wind on my Cheetah's as good as anyone and better than most. I say Cheetah. All in all a great free ride sail....
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QueNeo



Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a fan of Ezzy's ... I had an Infinity 9.5, thought it was awful with or w/o the cams on it (they rotated fine though). Sold it within a month. Just a really heavy, slow sail. Like they had no idea that you can't take a 4.5 and just make it bigger.

I also have one of their 6.3 wave sails here someone gave me, same thing though, heavy, slow, never feels locked in, draft moves around.

They are strong, I will say that for them, and a lot of people seem to like 'em...
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thought. Cheetah on a free ride board. Maybe a Lion on a free race board where the cams might add and edge on what your trying to achieve....
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you watch the tuning video's from Ezzy. Without proper down haul and out haul that is exactly what you get. I have heard that complain before. Every time I look at the sail, there is way to little down haul. People can't believe the difference after there sail is properly rigged. Most never watch Ezzy's great rigging and tuning wideo's
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5965

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVAAN is spot on about emphasizing downhaul and outhaul, as it's the key to sail performance. That said, everything is based on downhaul. Most sails include some measurement indicators marked in the top body of the sail. Make sure you adjust within the range of those indicators. Then it's adjusting the outhaul. Many sail brands can differ, but usually you want a bit of positive tension in the clew when cleating off. If the sail touches and bends over the boom while sailing, and your downhaul is within spec, you need more outhaul. If you still have some touching at the widest section of the boom, it could be the bend of your boom is more wave rather than slalom oriented. However, if you can rig a 7.5 with your boom, it's probably got a course/slalom curve orientation.
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