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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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top 3 pic's look like either step gibes, or maybe a tricky jump/pop for freestyle. bottom turns, sail stays inside with side off conditions.
the PWA pic is an onshore bottom turn. things are quite a bit trickier there.
late sail flips and straight, stiff stances are the most common problems with gibing or wave rides. benda the knees lots in either situation. _________________ www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/ |
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000 Posts: 3550
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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And what leads to the straight legs & late sail flip? A poor jibe initiation in what I call reigning in the horse. They initiate the jibe with all their weight on the back foot while pulling hard against the wind with their front (bent) arm. This poor initiation is usually caused by a rushed/poor setup. The domino effect.
Coachg |
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westender
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 1288 Location: Portland / Gorge
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's very difficult to put into words what it is you're feeling or doing.
Manuel found something that's working for him. I liked Dan W's explanation. I had to read it a couple times for it to make sense to me. I'm a thinker, feeler, watcher, but not so much a reader, when it comes to learning techniques.
Go for it Manuel. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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The two things that bother me about this rig-to-the-outside jibe are:
1. It's two unnecessary motions ... outside, then back inside. But if it's fun and works, that's what counts. After all, tricks, by their very nature, are inherently unnecessary.
2. It also leaves the driver leaning his whole body into the turn, most extreme in your third picture. That's normally a prelude to falling to the inside, but can obviously be compensated for to produce yet one more way to jibe. My inside shoulder has sometimes slapped the water in the middle of a fully planing jibe, but it's not "normal" and it's not a deliberate goal.
Being twisted around like that leaves us more vulnerable to external perturbations such as chop or gusts. The more normal posture, however -- knees and hips into the turn to load the inside rail, torso upright to keep our cg over the board, and rig oversheeted and driven inside and forward to also load the rail and put the rig right where we want it as we exit -- leaves us in a better position to absorb big perturbations in two different ways: tighter/quicker jibes expose us to fewer perturbations, and the more centered posture helps us absorb the ones we still have to deal with. I also believe we're less exposed to injury when not as twisted up as the guy in the first picture. I have no idea how he's going to deal with waist-high sharp chop and/or a huge gust mid-jibe. We can get away with murder on smooth water, though; one world-renown instructor used to teach jibing with straight knees until he tried it in the real (i.e., choppy) world.
It all just goes to further illustrate the huge variety of not just acceptable but highly effective ways to make a U-turn, rather than having to do it by any one set of rules. |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1158
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that overdoing it would cause the board to round up but when wanting more rotation a slight subtle swiping motion will help achieve the extra rotation needed to face an onshore wave. It's something that happens at sail opening not a stance which is held for some time except when "waiting" for a onshore wave at the top turn.
Another scenario I ran into, when jibing agressively without pulling the mast back up and out the clew will hit the water when sheeting out. That is true of both the jibe and an onshore bottom turn when trying to stay on the slope of a smaller wave.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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manuel wrote: | when jibing agressively without pulling the mast back up and out the clew will hit the water when sheeting out. |
Nothing wrong with that. I enjoy the jibes in which the belly of my boom scrapes the water even though I'm sheeted way in. When my clew slaps the water mid-jibe, it tells me any of several things I need to correct next time:
1. My sail foot wasn't pressed hard enough against my leg.
2. My front hand wasn't thrust into the jibe hard enough.
3. I forgot that I just rigged a much larger sail than last session.
4. I didn't get the mast upright enough before jibing the sail.
5. I'm gonna fall if I don't get the rig somewhere else real fast.
6. I'm already falling and just don't know it yet. |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1158
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Funny Mike, how about not going fast enough?
On the mast scissoring subject, I noticed that on a wave board it didn't need nearly as much convincing to turn as a freewave. |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1158
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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One thing that is directly related to the swinging of the rig is having our rear hand back... way back. This forces the rig to be on our opposite side as a counter balance for maximum control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfZB4CQ3hw |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:05 am Post subject: |
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manuel wrote: | Funny Mike, how about not going fast enough?
On the mast scissoring subject, I noticed that on a wave board it didn't need nearly as much convincing to turn as a freewave. |
Sorry, Manuel ... I just now saw your question. You're right ... trying to carve while going too slow just buries the lee rail and bogs everything down.
And, yes, most wave boards respond much more quickly to turning input than most FW boards. Even better yet, at least at speed in chop, most old school (i.e., slightly narrower "traditional") wave boards turn even better/easier than any new/school shortwide "stubby" I've tried. That's why I buy almost exclusively the older, narrower wave boards for use in the Gorge, where the mirror-like surfaces we see in magazine photos of exotic side-off waves are rare. I don't want to have to plan my slashes/jibes/cutbacks/off-the-lips in time to take my back foot out of its strap and weight the rail like so many wider boards seem to prefer, and even if it did, that leaves that foot in the wrong place for a slash in the other direction literally a heartbeat later. On most older (more or less pre-2008) wave boards -- at least the ones I keep -- simple heel'n'toe pressure in the back strap is all that's necessary to whip the board 90 to 120 degrees at speed in harsh terrain; sail input accelerates the process but is not necessary unless jibing. |
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PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 1830
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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manuel wrote: | One thing that is directly related to the swinging of the rig is having our rear hand back... way back. This forces the rig to be on our opposite side as a counter balance for maximum control. |
Manuel that's not why we slide our back hand back when jibing. The hands being "rear staggered" (front hand near the harness lines, back hand back a foot or more from its usual spot) to provide additional leverage for oversheeting, and it allows us to tilt the rig forward (towards the nose and into the turn) which provides a last bit of acceleration as we bear off. While tilting the mast to the outside of the turn mid jibe can work to balance the rig before it is flipped, it's not a requirement. The mast will be whereever it is when you release or throw the clew...it may well be outside the turn, or it may be directly over the board, or anywhere in between. You'll find that out for yourself as you hit more planing jibes. In the meantime certainly don't stop if it's working for you now and you're planing through. _________________ Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com |
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