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In search of bigger shortboard for lighter Gorge conditions
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rlemmens wrote:
was it Braz or Rush Randle or someone else who had a similar injury (maybe) but wore velcro booties and had velcro pads on his boards?

Countless people, including WSers, snap their ACLs and tear up a meniscus. Whether and when they come back or not depends on several physiological, psychological, and pre- and post-op care factors. Many observers from the beach to the OR tell me I'm way ahead in all those regards, and that's not a boast; it's encouragement and motivation for anyone facing similar challenges to take the injury and its care very seriously. A friend who's a much better WSer than I snapped his ACL, but lesser surgical and rehab care left him impaired all day every day. Many surgical and injury patients are left crippled simply because that's what they expected; i.e., their disability is in their head.

Judging by the action in the videos, Velcro is unnecessary. If bare feet don't offer enough traction on the waffle-grid full deck pads, booties should. The board's low drag and eagerness to plane should greatly reduce forward pull of the sail on my feet, which = sail power hydrodynamic drag. I've sailed two shortboards designed from the get-go to plane extremely early, and their transition between planing and slogging was almost imperceptible. On the Boss, it was often debatable, even moot, to the rider whether he was planing or not; the subtle difference was a pump or an imperceptible gust. I don't expect THAT here, but this isn't a 65 liter wave board, either. As the widest, floatiest board I've been on in over 20 years (except for 100 yards on a Start in 4 mph), anything this size is likely to feel like an air hockey puck on frozen Teflon for a change.

And even Velcro would be insufferable at present, since the slightest loaded rotational force hurts like holy hell.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed U2U2U2's new avatar. Funny! Very Happy
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
From what I understand a fish tail is for surfing, while on a wave one tail can be in the water and one side out thus making the board seem smaller.

That's how my best moments on the river are spent. Almost everything else is just a means to that end.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Iso, it is a well known fact that Exocet boards are the easiest on your knees because of their superior deck padding and shock absorber. They make a 111 wave board, and have a Wind-SUP that is very cost effective. The problem with the Wind-SUP, the Sea Lion, or any other combo board is they are much heavier. This is not good on your knees. Whereas the X Wave 111 will give you the float, padding with built in shock absorber, great turning, and half the weight of any combo board.

I appreciate the suggestion, but the X-wave 111 is heavier and smaller than my Syncro (acclaimed for its smooth ride), and its density is very close to the 135 liter SeaLion's weight per liter (it's within Exocet's 6.5% weight/liter tolerance). The 111 is alllllmost a sinker for me; but the SeaLion offers an additional 50 pounds of buoyancy while being only 6 inches longer.

Additionally, I add more deck padding under my heels than the Exocets have if a board needs it; it takes just minutes. Besides, pads/bumpers compensate primarily for worn-down intra articular knee cartilage, which in my case is exceptionally thick and smooth according to x-rays, MRIs, and the scope.

I am concerned about the ride quality of ANY board as wide as this 75 cm SeaLion, but in this case planing power rises in importance. More padding is easier to add than planing power, either via booties or ... well ... more padding.
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SPQR



Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After looking at the Sealion on line, I am wondering which board you are contemplating to purchase and what your weight is. I'm assuming you are placing windsurfing as a priority over SUP capabilities. These boards look like a lot of fun, I'm becoming interested myself and as close to 200 lbs I'm interested in how the 9' would work as a SUP board. After watching a number of the videos the sort of goofing around in light air I'm interested in for windsurfing would be a piece of cake. Plus my daughter loves SUP/surfing and could easily use one of smaller sizes but it would be nice for one board that we could both use.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 180 and buying the 8-3, and, yes, sailability trumps SUP capability for me. But my Great Lakes bud at 200# absolutely loves SUPing his SeaLion Classic, shorter but at the same 135L volume as mine. The 8-3 is an updated version of the Classic, supposedly looser but its extra length may help directional SUP tracking. All I need from SUP mode is the ability to paddle out to the wind line, try to learn to play in small swell -- bigger swell if I can make it work in stronger winds in SUP mode -- and paddle home. Any ocean time will be a very occasional bonus, as it's >300 miles away. I also plan to find out whether I can stay upriver near my home, where the Columbia flows pretty fast. I have no delusions of taking long downwind river cruises on this thing as some guys do on their boards twice as long as mine.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1072

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
For those sailors worried about injuries from using footstraps, I would suggest sailing with just your toes in the straps. That's how I sail, and I've never really had a problem releasing from my straps. And, I should point out that always use booties too. It's a technique that has lots of benefits, and very little downside.


Same here swchandler. When I first started sailing 15 years ago, I got trapped under my sail and could not get my foot out. It was maybe 15 seconds, but scared the hell out of me. I now like my feet snug but only about half way in, that way I can always twist out....
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scottwerden



Joined: 11 Jul 1999
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,
Sailing after your injury has risk to it, despite whatever permission your PT or doc gave. They have no idea what might happen. I would really minimize the risk potential, personally. Here is a thought - SUP-surfing involves no straps and is low impact on the knees and back since you are always upright and never jumping. It is tons of fun - I have been doing it as an alternative to wave sailing when there is no wind and find myself not missing windsurfing at all. If you like wave sailing, you will like SUP-surfing. It really is a workout for core strength and balance. Your only problem is that the nearest waves are out on the coast, but other than that I think SUP-surfing will be a lot safer for you while you are still on the mend. Anyway, good luck.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14322

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottwerden wrote:
Hi Mike,
Sailing after your injury has risk to it, despite whatever permission your PT or doc gave. They have no idea what might happen. I would really minimize the risk potential, personally. Here is a thought - SUP-surfing involves no straps and is low impact on the knees and back since you are always upright and never jumping. It is tons of fun - I have been doing it as an alternative to wave sailing when there is no wind and find myself not missing windsurfing at all. If you like wave sailing, you will like SUP-surfing. It really is a workout for core strength and balance. Your only problem is that the nearest waves are out on the coast, but other than that I think SUP-surfing will be a lot safer for you while you are still on the mend.

That* ... plus gradually easing into powering the same strapless board with a sail as I and my medical providers deem safe ... is my plan. I'm trying to simulate those actions in the gym, sending my providers SeaLion videos for threat evaluation, and paying close attention to ACL-related threats, experiences, and advice posted here. I'm willing to risk buying a board that may not work out, but not willing to ignore identifiable risks to my knee. It seems to me that once I pass the tests sports medicine PTs use to evaluate progress, the strapless environment should be much more benign than a strapped board and its inherent risks of jumps and twisting falls. The PT already has me doing modest vertical and forward jumps and full-speed running as part of my rehab; impact is a necessary part of restoring proper neuromuscular performance. ACL patients minimal readiness criteria usually includes sustained vigorous hopping on the injured leg.

* By "that" I include using a strapless, quick-planing board powered by paddle, marginally powered sail, and/or gravity (whatever boost I can learn to get from ANY available terrain) to just go out and work any available and useful bumps on the river. Some spots can generate a foot or two of swell in breezes so light many kiters prefer their beach chairs. Once I feel both safe and proficient at that and in bigger swell, I can take it to the coast in search of swell/waves with light winds.

A bud in my gym who's lost his career (firefighter) and hobby (basketball) due to an injury like mine revealed today that he quit his insurance-approved PT just 3-4 months into his rehab ... the very point many people quit rehab. His surgery was >four months before mine, but by now his rehabilitation is far behind mine ... mostly, I presume, because he's getting no rehab guidance. He hasn't even begun things my PT emphasized months ago, and my PT is taking it slowly with me.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you and I are of like minds when it comes to PT. It takes a big time commitment to get meaningful results.

It does sound like you are pushing a bit fast to get back on the water. No matter what gear you're on, straps or no, getting twisted unexpectedly in a fall is something that happens. Could be a kook unexpectedly turning into you. Something or someone not in your control.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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