myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Drysuits/wetsuits.I know, we have this discussion every year
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14631

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From http://www.kayakacademy.com/pages/store/tropos.html
comes this comparison, beginning with this:
<<<Tropos T3 Dry Suits vs Gore-Tex® Dry Suits

Tropos* T3 dry suits are Kokatat's answer for those who want a waterproof/breathable dry suit but can't afford or can't justify the cost of a GoreTex® dry suit. Tropos T3 dry suits are nearly half the price of a similar featured GoreTex® dry suit, and generally lower priced than other brands of waterproof breathable dry suits yet they are built in the US by Kokatat. Tropos T3 dry suits are good enough for some people for certain water-sports (i.e. kayaking, canoeing, and rafting). However, most commercial work activities (dock installers, pool cleaners, swiftwater rescue workers, fish biologists doing stream studies, etc.) and water-sports such as kite boarding require the greater strength and extra waterproofness (to withstand greater pressure or extended time in the water) that only a Kokatat GoreTex® dry suit can provide (unless you want to go back to a non-breathable dry suit, but then you'll be wearing a sweat bag).>>>

* Those Kokatat pants I had that let water in like cotton, then held it literally by the gallon, were Tropos. They must have been faulty.

I recommending clicking on and reading the whole article, rather than shelling out money based on somebody's ski jacket ... or on the national whitewater rafting team that uses bag suits for winter rafting in severe snowmelt rapids all winter. I asked one of them how he liked his Kokatat Goretex suit. "Simple: I'm warm and dry while guys in any other suit are cold."

"How often do you change seals or send your suit back for repairs or maintenance?"

"Haven't had to yet."

"How long have you had it?"

"6 years."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
norcom



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tropos is the old fabric from Kokatat. This is the new fabric, Hydrus 3L.

Also, that article/review is one of the worst I've ever read. At the top they're giving you all the faults of Tropos and then two paragraphs below, they say that it's good and the second best they've ever tested. They say it's not as dry and then they say that it wont leak any water in.

I very much doubt that Kokatat would make seams that would fail or not be as good as the GoreTex. They're using GLUE on both materials!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14631

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's more on the fabrics.
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1618388#1618522
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can drag out all the articles you want, and ignore my FIRST HAND experience with both materials in far harsher conditions than you will ever get windsurfing.

I got my non-gore tex suit as something to hold me over while I get my regular Gore-Tex suit tested and repaired (something I have to do about every year). Sometimes it's gone for a few weeks, sometimes almost two months. This was too long. So I found the Hydrus suit with a lifetime warranty (the fact that they changed the warranty from 2 years to lifetime should tell you something about the new materials) at REI with my 20% off and my rebate from the following year for under $600 (remember the full Meridian model not the basic). I thought it would be perfect for when I had to get my goretex suit tested and/or repaired.

What surprised me is that I enjoy wearing my new Hydrus suit MORE now than my Goretex suit. It holds out the water and seems to breath the same. Remember Goretex came out a LONG time ago. There are other alternatives now......

Especially if it is something you are going to wear 10 times a year or so (remember I wear mine OVER 100 times a year, probably close to 150 days). You won't go wrong with it. My ONLY concern is the zipper. I don't like having the plastic one exposed (it is covered in my kayaking suit). As to durability, well after 2 1/2 years my metal one broke and had to be replaced for couple hundred dollars. The plastic one would be cheaper to replace. And many other manufactures use the plastic one as their zipper in their top of the line suits, so I wouldn't call the plastic one cheap.

Oh yeah when I bought my Hydrus one for windsurfing I was concerned (this was 3 years ago) and called Kokatat direct and spoke to their representatives if the Hydrus suit I was looking at would be strong enough for windsurfing. He didn't have any concerns.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
norcom



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Here's more on the fabrics.
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=1618388#1618522


Yes, I've read that when I was looking up the Hydrus material.

So lets assume, that "sales rep" rates the breathability of the Hydrus 8/10 and GoreTex 10/10. Says it's strong and has a lifetime warranty. For half the price you get a similar product.

What's your point? GoreTex is better? That you like GoreTex? I think all your posts in this thread mention that.

Maybe you just want to piss on my purchase of the Hydrus suit. Instead of being a douche bag you could have just asked "hey post a review of how you like it".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14631

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP asked for opinions on fabric dry suits. You offer one dude's personal experience with one item, yet call someone names because he provides the OP a wide range of opinions based on his own 30 years of owning four of them of multiple fabrics and brands, a year-round gorge hard core sailor who has also compared several first hand, multiple reviews of them, and ice-breaker WSers and rafters who use them.

Coincidentally, yes, I do favor Kokatat's GoreTex suit. I also have received many comments from MANY people who bough them and are slapping themselves in the forehead for waiting so long. You're welcome to buy whatever the hell you want, but what gives you any right to curse out and falsely accuse another responder?

WTF is wrong with you people? Do you behave like this in real life? If so, how often do you get hospitalized?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gobbdogg



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norcom and JohnL- what the hell is wrong with you? Why do you insist on using personal experience and your own research to contest Isobore's dogma? Please just accede to him immediately- it saves so much time and hassle... oh yeah, don't forget to genuflect!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not a criticism or promotion of any product. I tried to do some research to see how waterproof/breathable products are tested, and while there are different procedures, what I couldn't find is the most important factor. If a body perspires x amount of water/vapor in a given amount time, how much of that water/vapor will penetrate through the fabric?

What I did find in one article that tested various types of outerwear on a treadmill was that the testers couldn't see any difference between the various fabrics including non water proof and waterproof/breathable. They sweated up a storm under all of them.

My point is, which has also been my experience, that waterproof/breathable fabrics aren't all that great if your work load is heavy. I get pretty wet under the garments, no matter the breathability.

Any fabric that is waterproof and breathable will be better than something that isn't breathable, but don't be fooled that you will stay dry and comfortable underneath if you are working hard. There are a lot of factors that come into play, such as the air and water temperatures, evaporation, layers worn underneath and work load.

I am reminded of a hiking trip a couple of years ago where a group of 15 were on a 3000' elevation gain morning hike on a steep trail in moderate to heavy rain. There were probably a half dozen types of waterproof/breathable rain jackets, but all but one were totally soaked underneath because perspiration could not be released fast enough to stay dry. The one smart guy wore rain pants, but only a long sleeve shirt on top and carried an umbrella. One of the "wet" guys worked for A*^*%@ and was really pissed off because he was wearing a newly designed $500 waterproof/breathable jacket and was wetter underneath than on the outside. He simply didn't understand that "breathability" has its limits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter how much you try, you can't really measure breathability under a work load. Because it will vary because of the difference in humidity between the inner space and outside. Temperature also affects it.

If you are wearing any type of shell and are working (i.e. sweating) I don't care how much you spent on your attire, it will not breathe 100%. Think of Gandolf "You shall not pass!" Sad

This is something that mountain climbers learned long ago. While climbing, you climb in the MINIMUM clothing that will keep you cool. Once you stop to rest, you put everything on. When you start again, take it all off. This way you don't saturate your insulation layers which can reduce their effectiveness later. Hiking/climbing in rain has always been a challenge.

This is the same in shell clothing. Windsurfing is tough (and whitewater kayaking) because it is usually the water that is what you are insulating against. While actually above the water you will probably be warm (unless of course it is really cold outside also). If you are warm, you will sweat. If you get hot you will sweat TOO MUCH and that will be more than the shell can handle. And this is for all materials. Also if anything covers the shell such as a life jacket or a harness the material will NOT breathe in this area. This is a problem we face in the PNW in kayaking. In the summer it can be 90 degrees out, but the water remains 42 degrees. So if you dress in your drysuit too soon, you start to sweat then when you get wet, the sweat gets chilled. And this happens no matter which suit I wear gortex or Hydrus.

But I have no idea what I was thinking when I posted this stuff. After all 30 years of reading articles is much better than first hand experience in using stuff made in the last couple of years......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl,

Exactly, that's why we wear synthetics under the dry suits, something like under armour against the skin and then fleece on the next layer. The sweat and wetness isn't against the skin and the insulating thickness of the fleece keeps you warm even thought it can be pretty wet inside.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group