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lake arenal / costa rica
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:

Re the planing tack, I honestly don't think its possible to literally, continuously plane from one tack to the other for a few reasons, in no particular order.

1. Form drag pushing backward the entire rig, you and the board throughout most of the tack.

2. A planing board is so at about four degrees of board angle, with most of the board in front of the bow wave. Technically this means that ALL the weight of our body, rig and board is supported by hydrodynamic force, but we are not planing when ANY part of our mass is supported by hydrostatic force a.k.a. buoyancy. Stepping forward, even if never directly in front of the mast, transfers your body weight toward the bow, in front of the bow wave. This pushes the rocker down and pushes the bow wave forward, greatly slowing the board just when the only forward incidence is inertia (sail depowered and the fin having no resistance to convert its torque into forward drive).

3. Obviously, staying on a plane certainly doesn't require as much energy as getting on a plane, but it does require a certain amount of forward motion. I'd guess that most every board falls of plane at about 10 knots of forward speed. I've sailed with world class racers at elite regattas, as have many of you. I've never seen them actually plane through the tack, where the board clearly is planing. I've practiced hours to be able to do it and, while we all get close, there is a point where we rely in the board's volume to keep us moving forward. For the best, it can be momentarily, but it always occurs.


Since I came VERY close to completing one I completely disagree. But you are using "elite racers" as an example which I wouldn't expect to plane through one. BUT try a freestyle board and a smaller sail. You might change your mind.....

As to a tight jibe being as good as a tack, this is was spoken by somebody who can't do a shortboard tack. In a jibe no matter how tight you lose some ground. A tack is just the opposite. You gain anywhere from 5 to 20 feet of upwind ground. Do the math. Ground gained beats ground lost anytime UNLESS you are really good at making tight jibes completely on a plane ALL the time.

This is true ESPECIALLY when we are talking about trying to get upwind in a strong flood tide such as the delta. Comparing this to an easterly in the gorge it just ain't the same thing. I don't even have to think about tacking there.....
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13309

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which has better odds of success for real-world sailors on shortboards ... planing tacks or tight planing jibes? (You ... a freestyler ... have tried for how many years without completing even ONE.) One failed tack attempt loses more ground than the difference between a planing tack and a tight jibe.

Ya don't need to tack a sinker to know that.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geeze; Mike, can't you get your facts straight? I said attempted to PLANE through one. I didn't say just do one. I can do them all day till the cows come home. Pretty much the same as jibes. All it takes is time and practice to learn them.

You see Tacks are just another skill to learn windsurfing. And the more skills you have, the better off you will be. Of course if you only have one skill and have really long arms to pat yourself on the back, I guess that is enough.....
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kellygeygan



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Formula boards plane at a lower speed than any other board. That is no secret. Should a Formula board therefore have an advantage in executing a fully planing tack? I have many times seen a near planing tack by Xavier and he says almost planing is what he does consistently. Maybe a ducktack would best serve this goal as it would keep the board trim relatively uniform. Just an idea .......
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tstizzle



Joined: 05 Jul 2000
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: It Doth Wind Reply with quote

It Doth Wind at Lake Arenal!

as you know, lake arenal is known for good, strong wind. in my 15 years windsurfing, i have never been to a windsurfing location that delivers the quantity of windy days than as does lake arenal. the success ratio, meaning the number of days you can sail, is on the order of 13 out of 14 or, in other words, MORE THAN 90%!

early in this trip we spent a few days with lighter wind. as you may recall, the trip so far has been 12 days of sailing. out of those 12 days there was a only single day when i didn't sail, but enjoyed the new fanatic inflatable standup board. most of the other days were great, but slightly lighter

well, today the wind returned. and it went to 11!

during the morning commute (traffic was light) there is a view from a hillside overlooking the lake. the wind was strong and building. here's a shot from the overlook (through the jungle with MONKEYS!!!!) - yes, looks flat. but as you know, the camera robs the water of its vitriol:




i quickly grabbed an almost brand new North Hero 3.7, and a 86 liter fanatic freewave:




and hit the water (sometimes quite literally) on my wee kit. i was oh-so-happy for the stronger winds!!:



no need to comment on my fat belly. i'm aware of it and jenny craig is tailoring a plan for windsurfers. it was windy all day. i personally got three session: 2 hours in the morning on 3.7, 1 in the afternoon on 3.7 and another on 4.2. here's a shot of our Uncle Normandale (yours and mine), ripping it up on his 3.7:



and here's some more kinda fun pics: a sequence of Gregoire du Montreal screaming into a Switch Stance/Reverse Footed Jibe:









it continued all...day...long! my arms are killing while typing this. yet there were a couple of cool things that happened at the end of the day.

first, the lake developed an incredible rainbow. it wasn't a single rainbow. it wasn't even a double rainbow. it was the first time in my life i have seen a TRIPLE rainbow. i tried like hell to get a pic but by the time i got on shore, got the camera, and shot it, the color had been outsourced to china and it had gone back to a single:




so, sailing day done, we popped some vitamin I and hit the road. after the long commute back to our jungle cabina, cold pilsen beer in hand, we arrived to a couple of visitors in the tree over our house. a gaggle of howler monkeys occasionally live in the tree above.

and tonight was their night to visit:



and here's another shot of a mama monkey with a wee baby on her back. look over the shoulder to see the baby:



the forecast is for GOOD WIND the next few days. as i sit here with the patio door open, the wind is absolutely howling.

maybe that's how the Howler Monkeys got their name: Howling Wind.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13309

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Geeze; Mike, can't you get your facts straight? I said attempted to PLANE through one. I didn't say just do one. I can do them all day till the cows come home. Pretty much the same as jibes. All it takes is time and practice to learn them.

You see Tacks are just another skill to learn windsurfing. And the more skills you have, the better off you will be. Of course if you only have one skill and have really long arms to pat yourself on the back, I guess that is enough.....

Read my post. That's exactly what I said: you have yet to "do" one planing shortboard tack. By the time you tack to a crawl and get a small board back onto a plane, the tight jiber is LONG gone upwind. Fall, and he's outta sight before the tacker is even back on his board.

You isobashers would look a lot more rational if you'd look before bashing.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13309

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: It Doth Wind Reply with quote

tstizzle wrote:
as you know, lake arenal is known for good, strong wind. in my 15 years windsurfing, i have never been to a windsurfing location that delivers the quantity of windy days than as does lake arenal. the success ratio, meaning the number of days you can sail, is on the order of 13 out of 14 or, in other words, MORE THAN 90%!

Yeeaaahhh ... but where are all those 3 to 5 foot swell you talked about? We have yet to see obscured knees, let alone shoulders.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
johnl wrote:
Geeze; Mike, can't you get your facts straight? I said attempted to PLANE through one. I didn't say just do one. I can do them all day till the cows come home. Pretty much the same as jibes. All it takes is time and practice to learn them.

You see Tacks are just another skill to learn windsurfing. And the more skills you have, the better off you will be. Of course if you only have one skill and have really long arms to pat yourself on the back, I guess that is enough.....

Read my post. That's exactly what I said: you have yet to "do" one planing shortboard tack. By the time you tack to a crawl and get a small board back onto a plane, the tight jiber is LONG gone upwind. Fall, and he's outta sight before the tacker is even back on his board.

You isobashers would look a lot more rational if you'd look before bashing.


Mr. Fick-shun is correct, you guys should read what he wrote before you jump all over him. What's he's really saying with all his self-congratualtory blather is:
"I can't tack"

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tstizzle



Joined: 05 Jul 2000
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: It Doth Wind Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
tstizzle wrote:
as you know, lake arenal is known for good, strong wind. in my 15 years windsurfing, i have never been to a windsurfing location that delivers the quantity of windy days than as does lake arenal. the success ratio, meaning the number of days you can sail, is on the order of 13 out of 14 or, in other words, MORE THAN 90%!

Yeeaaahhh ... but where are all those 3 to 5 foot swell you talked about? We have yet to see obscured knees, let alone shoulders.


there's no way i could get a pic of the swell. it's further out in the lake and all i have is a crappy point-n-shoot. plus, i'm more into the sailing than the picture-taking.
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faradroka1



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 214
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the waves and swell are over here in Los Barriles Twisted Evil

T-man, good to see you are still representing bay area in lake arenal...



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